Halloween (1978)
We conclude that Halloween (1978) is foundational to the slasher genre but is flawed and does not hold up as a truly frightening film today. We describe how John Carpenter created a film that set the template for later horror. We note that Michael Myers is iconic but his unkillable nature strains credibility. We discuss strong moments and jump scares that work, and also many scenes that feel hokey or poorly staged. We say Donald Pleasance is a fine actor but miscast for the role. We end by giving the film low to middling ratings and saying we appreciate its historical importance despite its weaknesses.
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Transcript
And then, you know, the.
Speaker A:The big break in the case is you turn around and you notice the official vehicle that he jacked from you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then that leads you to just walk the half mile to where everything's happening.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Welcome to the what's Up Verdict podcast, where we fashion ourselves cinematic judge and jury.
Speaker B:My name is J.J. crowder.
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Speaker B:All Right, let's get into our movie.
Speaker B:Week three of Horror Halloween October, picked by our patrons.
Speaker B:We appreciate that.
Speaker B:So let's jump into Halloween.
Speaker B:It's good timing.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:It was written and directed by John Carpenter.
Speaker B:It stars Donald Pleasance, Jamie Lee Curtis, Tony Moran, Nancy Keys, PJ Souls, Charles Ciphers, Nancy Stevens, Robert Phelan, Arthur Mallet and Adam Hollander.
Speaker B: is sister on Halloween night,: Speaker B:Michael Myers escaped from a mental hospital, returns to the small town, small town of Haddonfield, Illinois, to kill again.
Speaker B:It's about as accurate as it gets right there.
Speaker B:I gotta go first on this one, don't I?
Speaker A:Yes, you do.
Speaker A:Oh,.
Speaker B:Listen, this movie is a classic, okay?
Speaker B:It was a.
Speaker B:It was a genre.
Speaker B:It was actually the sleeper of the three major horror, slasher genre like franchises that were coming out in this time frame, late 70s, early 80s, that being Halloween, Nightmare on Elm street and Friday the 13th.
Speaker B:I think it's the lesser enjoyed of the three.
Speaker B:It was the less in your face.
Speaker B:But it was still very popular as there's still movies coming out recently.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Which is the norm for a lot of these movies right now.
Speaker B:But I will say that it's not my favorite of the three.
Speaker B:I think the only part about it that I. I don't get mad about, and I look at it as the superior of the three franchises is that it's consistent.
Speaker B:Whereas Nightmare on Elm street is consistent, but it gets a little wonky and got a little campy and really goofy at the end with Freddy.
Speaker B:And then Nightmare or Friday the 13th was anything but consistent.
Speaker B:Like, that thing was all over the place.
Speaker B:The only consistent part, ironically, after the second one or after the first one was Jason.
Speaker B:Okay, beyond that, we're in Manhattan, we're in space, we're.
Speaker B:It's just weird.
Speaker B:And so the one thing about Halloween is it's consistent.
Speaker B:It's one town in Illinois where this dude just won't die.
Speaker B:And he keeps killing everybody that he can get his hands on around the fact that he was a child that killed his sister and was a psycho and that was it.
Speaker B:Now, I am also a firm believer that the first in all these franchises is by far the best because you're not prepared for everything that's going on.
Speaker B:And the one thing about Halloween is it's creepy.
Speaker B:And it's very similar in.
Speaker B:In some aspects other than there's no question about who the killer is.
Speaker B:It's just about can you get away?
Speaker B:Which we know the answer is no.
Speaker B:And it's probably most similar to, like, the most.
Speaker B:The more recent slasher films, right?
Speaker B:Like, we talked about Scream, and we've Talked about Scream 5, and I've watched all the screams, and they're that slasher mentality of, we know there's a killer.
Speaker B:You're going to get smoked.
Speaker B:There's going to be a lot of deaths.
Speaker B:Like, it's consistent that way.
Speaker B:Do I think it's that good?
Speaker B:It's a little convoluted.
Speaker B:It's a little all over the place.
Speaker B:Like, I'm never a fan of the unkillable, right?
Speaker B:Like the unendable villain.
Speaker B:Like, I don't like it.
Speaker B:Jason and Michael Myers being the worst offenses in my mind because there's no feasible reason as to why they should still continue to be alive when they get shot, stabbed, punched, Jason, they kind of leaned into why a little bit.
Speaker B:Michael Myers, you never know.
Speaker B:Like, would you.
Speaker B:Fueled by hate.
Speaker B:Like, I don't understand.
Speaker B:Like, that's the only thing.
Speaker B:Freddie at least has a reason because he lives in the dream world, right?
Speaker B:Like, that's.
Speaker B:That makes sense to me.
Speaker B:And I can forgive that much more than.
Speaker B:Than Halloween and Friday the 13th because that suspension of disbelief is hard for me.
Speaker B:Because I'm like, but why?
Speaker B:And give me a good reason.
Speaker B:And I'm all for it, right?
Speaker B:Like, yeah, Pinhead, like, you got.
Speaker B:But there's all sorts of horror villains that you're like, I know why they're still kicking and why they're around these two.
Speaker B:I don't understand.
Speaker B:And Michael's the worst because he's human at the start.
Speaker A:Because they're making money.
Speaker A:That's why.
Speaker B:That's fair.
Speaker B:So anyway, now John Carpenter is a horror genius to a point.
Speaker B:He's a great writer.
Speaker B:I think he.
Speaker B:He lacked as a director, and it shows in this movie, but it's still a classic.
Speaker B:And if you're wanting tents, the music's great.
Speaker B:The intense, like, it's.
Speaker B:It's hard to not feel creeped out all the time by this because he can just pop up anywhere.
Speaker B:And especially early in the film when he's just like, standing behind trees and watching and you're like, so there is some very good elements to the movie, but it's not my favorite horror movie or genre for that matter.
Speaker B:Or I mean franchise, for that matter.
Speaker B:But I'm assuming first time for you.
Speaker A:Yeah, first time I've ever seen this.
Speaker B:Did we.
Speaker B:Were you part.
Speaker B:Because we did another Halloween movie in the podcast.
Speaker A:I was a part of Halloween ends.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:But this is the first time I'd watched the original and I wasn't watching all 14 other movies to get back to the same thing, but first time watching this one and there, there was, like, a lot of problems I had with it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think you hit on a good point.
Speaker A:Think this is another one of those, like, movies with moments and scenes, really cool moments, really.
Speaker A:Or like, really amazing moments that are almost bookended by lackluster or ridiculous kind of scenes that take away.
Speaker A:And so, like, for example, right when, near the end, when Jamie Lee Curtis is trying to get back in the house.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you keep panning over and Michael Myers is just getting closer and closer.
Speaker A:Like, I think that's like, that's the whole premise of it.
Speaker A:Doesn't matter how fast you run, he can walk faster, Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so like that scene where it just shows him silhouetted walking along the side of the house, just completely unconcerned and unbothered about his pace that he's going.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's like amazing.
Speaker A:But the scene as the whole,.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker A:Was like, okay, cool.
Speaker A:No big deal.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Just keep running.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like you, you had all the fucking time in the world to find the key in your pocket.
Speaker A:I don't care how tight your pockets are or, you know, at that point, just go round, keep running.
Speaker A:Yeah, I like, there's so many things there, but that moment in that shot is just so cool.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Then another problem I have with it is I really like Donald Pleasance as an actor.
Speaker A:Problem I have with him as I think he's never been cast in a movie that was good for him.
Speaker B:Agreed, agreed.
Speaker A:Like, he always seems like the wrong casting choice.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:For whatever role he's in.
Speaker A:I think he's really good as an actor.
Speaker A:I love his delivery, I love the way he acts.
Speaker A:But I don't think he's ever been cast in a role that made sense.
Speaker A:And so him as the doctors is like.
Speaker A:I was originally like, okay, cool, here we go.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I like this guy.
Speaker A:And it really falls flat.
Speaker A:It's hard to be like, I'm the authority on Michael Myers.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I've sat across from him in a room 15 years and I'm the reason he's never gonna get out of here type of a thing.
Speaker A:And then you're almost looking.
Speaker A:I'm like, dude, you really suck at your job.
Speaker A:Like, you're, you're the, you're the, you're the worldwide over authority on Michael Myers and you're Camped out in the bushes at his old place while he's killing little, literally everybody a block over.
Speaker B:Isn't it wild?
Speaker A:And then, you know, the, the big break in the case is you turn around and you notice the official vehicle that he jacked from you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then that leads you to just walk the half mile to where everything's happening.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And so I was like, so there's.
Speaker A:There's so many little holes in it that take these really, really cool moments that I think are like some of the best and make them fall a little bit flat.
Speaker A:Because then I'm just wondering, like, what, what are you doing?
Speaker A:And I'll tell you the first thing that really pissed me off.
Speaker A:And it's such a small thing, but really started the ball rolling, is the first kind of third person shot we get behind Michael.
Speaker A:And when you hear his breathing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:The shoulders don't match.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:It's the worst.
Speaker A:So I was like.
Speaker A:And oh, she was kind of laughing at me because she's like, well, you know, when, when they're walking, they dub the steps.
Speaker A:Like, it doesn't match up either.
Speaker A:I was like, I don't care about that.
Speaker A:I was like, this was way too long.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Of a visual over shoulder showing the shoulders going up and the breathing, like the going on, the in on the exhale.
Speaker A:And I was.
Speaker A:Or just doesn't make any sense at all.
Speaker A:Dude, you gotta be better.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Even in this.
Speaker B:Even in 78.
Speaker A:Even in 78.
Speaker A:You gotta be just a little bit better.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:To where it lines up.
Speaker A:Because it was glaringly obvious.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so at that point, it's.
Speaker A:I was almost like, okay, here we go.
Speaker A:I get the hokey.
Speaker A:And where, where's the pokey showing up, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And so there was, there was plenty of.
Speaker A:Throughout where I was going, why, why is everybody like, I, I.
Speaker A:That was where I was questioned, like, why was this so popular?
Speaker A:Or how did it last for so long?
Speaker A:Or it spin off 14 different sequels.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was like, that's where it doesn't.
Speaker A:It doesn't really make sense to me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's weird.
Speaker B:And it spawned one of the weirdest sequels ever.
Speaker B:Like, so Halloween 2 has nothing to do with Michael Myers.
Speaker B:Like, it's exactly like.
Speaker B:It's almost like they were.
Speaker B:So the original intention that Carpenter had was Halloween was going to be.
Speaker B:And I can't think of the term, but, like, if you.
Speaker B:Of course you haven't.
Speaker B:There's the shows that are like, I keep going to American Horror Story where it Has a season and then the next season is completely removed.
Speaker B:But it's the same cast.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, so.
Speaker B:And I can't think of the term.
Speaker B:There's a term for it and I know it, but it's just gone right now.
Speaker B:But those.
Speaker B:It was intended to be like that.
Speaker B:So the Halloween series was gonna be here.
Speaker B:We got Michael Myers, this crazy serial killer that is psycho.
Speaker B:Then Halloween 2 was supposed to be about a coven of witches and like that story.
Speaker B:And then Halloween 3 was going to be different.
Speaker B:So Carpenter had this whole thing.
Speaker B:Well, then Carpenter left because like the.
Speaker B:The studio wanted him to go back to.
Speaker B:He made Halloween to.
Speaker B:It absolutely bombed.
Speaker B:Like, it was terrible.
Speaker B:Like one of the worst movies I've ever seen.
Speaker B:And then Halloween 3, they were like, well, we want you to go back to Michael Myers.
Speaker B:Like this.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:This worked, right?
Speaker B:And Carpenter was like, I'm out, I'm done.
Speaker B:I'm good.
Speaker B:And so then.
Speaker B:But they had the rights and so they got other people and they start making all these Halloween movies.
Speaker B:And then finally he came back.
Speaker B:He tried to come back for one.
Speaker B:I think it was called Halloween Again or something like that, or I can't remember the name.
Speaker B:But Carpenter came back and it was a really good version because he had the modern ability to make it even darker.
Speaker B:But by then we all know what it is.
Speaker B:It's just Michael Myers, like getting his ass kicked, getting shot, getting stabbed, laying on the ground, sitting up all dramatic and getting up and then walking real slow until he caught your ass.
Speaker B:And it's all they did was add more gore to match the times.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So back in this time, the one thing that I do appreciate is this.
Speaker B:In the 70s especially, horror was more like psychological.
Speaker B:Like they did a lot of cutaway because you'd get this X rating in the 70s if you had gore.
Speaker B:Too much gore.
Speaker B:And so there was a.
Speaker B:You'd see someone get stabbed or like a throat cut or whatever, but you wouldn't see the blood.
Speaker B:You wouldn't see.
Speaker B:And it would cut away real quick.
Speaker B:And you're just like, well, dead, right?
Speaker B:In modern horror, it's like, well, the gorier the better.
Speaker B:I mean, we got some movies that are sending people out throwing up.
Speaker B:It's so bad.
Speaker B:I like not seeing everything.
Speaker B:I think I've talked about this before.
Speaker B:Like, it is much worse in my head than you could ever show me on screen.
Speaker B:And so I appreciate that fact.
Speaker B:But Carpenter was never good at that transition to the modern horror.
Speaker B:He did like a vampire movie that was really bad.
Speaker B:And like, anyway, Carpenter was a weird one because he was such a.
Speaker B:Such a horror God back in the 70s and 80s.
Speaker B:But when you watch his movies now, you're like, yeah, they don't really hold up that well.
Speaker B:So were they really that good back then or we just starved for horror content and that made us uncomfortable?
Speaker A:I guess a little bit of both.
Speaker A:Because it's also at least watching this, I was like, oh, this is a timepiece.
Speaker B:Yeah, Right.
Speaker A:This is a timepiece of what it was like in the 70s with, you know, different things.
Speaker A:You know, you weren't even supposed to be home when the street lights came on.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I grew up.
Speaker A:That was a thing in 70s was check in like once every month.
Speaker A:And we're good type.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Deal.
Speaker A:So, you know, it's a completely different kind of time and thing like that.
Speaker A:And so I think it works in its own time and where the bubble is versus again, you know, watching it after all the desensitization and just growing up in a different time, I'm looking back at it going like, really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay, cool.
Speaker A:And it's, you know, just like the.
Speaker A:The little, almost intricacies of going back and forth and the storytelling that happens.
Speaker A:Like, okay, that's a 70s thing.
Speaker A:That right there.
Speaker A:That's 70s thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so I. I would almost think that it's probably a little bit of both, is that it's.
Speaker A:It's made for its time and it doesn't translate well.
Speaker A:And then on top of that, it just doesn't quite.
Speaker A:Doesn't quite match up.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Being able to make that transition.
Speaker A: use there's no way to know in: Speaker B:True.
Speaker A:50 Years later.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You watch a modern Halloween movie and you're like, I mean, it's Hack and Slash, Blood Gourd.
Speaker B:You see it all.
Speaker B:This one.
Speaker B:Like, you'd see enough.
Speaker B:And it probably, in.
Speaker B:In the late 70s, it was probably like a lot for them.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, you didn't see a lot of this stuff.
Speaker B:But I don't know, like, it's one of those things where I, as a horror fan, like, I. I have to recognize that this is a classic.
Speaker B:And you.
Speaker B:Michael Myers is so completely and utterly recognizable and solidified in cinematic history.
Speaker B:Like, there will always be talk of Halloween and its impact and Michael Myers.
Speaker B:There will be the William Shatner mask.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, it's so good.
Speaker B:But I also think that it gets more praise than it deserves, in my personal opinion.
Speaker B:Like one we talked about it doesn't translate.
Speaker B:Like, it doesn't hold up.
Speaker B:Like, if I go back and watch and I go, I'm not.
Speaker B:I'm not that scared.
Speaker B:Like, there.
Speaker B:There have been better psychopath movies made that.
Speaker A:Norman.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I even think of a modern version that's not really a horror movie called Mr. Brooks, I don't know if you've ever seen.
Speaker B:But it's got Kevin Costner.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:Very good movie where he's a serial killer.
Speaker B:And, like, there's a.
Speaker B:He's got a voice in the.
Speaker B:In his head, and it's played by John Hurd.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And, like, I'm telling you, it's worth the watch.
Speaker B:And we may have to.
Speaker B:I may have to add it to the list on one of these movies, movie months.
Speaker B:But I think about that and I go, that's a good psycho killer.
Speaker B:I think about Scream, and I go, that's a good movie about psychos, this one.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker B:It felt to me like they were trying to be.
Speaker B:If it weren't for the fact that it was first, right?
Speaker B:They were trying to be Friday the 13th.
Speaker B:Like, here's Jason, right?
Speaker B:Here's this.
Speaker B:And even Friday the 13th part two and on, right?
Speaker B:Like, here's this immovable force and unstoppable killer.
Speaker B:But I also.
Speaker B:And again, I go back to it, but I, I.
Speaker B:It doesn't hold up, too, because I'm like, why is he unstoppable?
Speaker B:Like, it just doesn't make sense to me because he's human.
Speaker B:Like, and it's never given to me why he's not.
Speaker B:Like, if they were to say he was possessed, that could have been interesting.
Speaker B:I think there were some interesting elements.
Speaker B:You either needed to lean into the fact that this is a psychotic guy and there's a way to stop him, but he's just too good.
Speaker B:Or he's psychotic because of something, right?
Speaker B:He was in.
Speaker B:He was.
Speaker A:He was.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:And I think they were probably trying to get away from that, too, because of, like, the whole possession.
Speaker B:There was a lot of possession movies going on at the time.
Speaker B:But to me, like, that's what I think of first is, like, make him possessed or make him like, his.
Speaker B:Like he was cursed or there's got to be something.
Speaker B:And I don't care how unbelievable or how lazy it is, it doesn't provide me with the, like, okay, they just shot him.
Speaker B:How do you get back up, like, and center mass from, like, four feet away?
Speaker B:Like, yeah, this is.
Speaker B:We're not talking about.
Speaker B:Anyway, so, like, that part like, there's just pieces that are missing to me.
Speaker B:And then the last piece that I just don't give it enough credit for is like, it's not that creepy to me.
Speaker B:Like, I don't get uncomfortable watching this movie.
Speaker B:There's moments, like you said, right.
Speaker B:Like there's pieces where I'm like, okay, that's terrifying.
Speaker B:Like, I would be horrified if I had this six foot eight giant or six, six giant walking at me.
Speaker B:And he's just unfazed by anything.
Speaker B:And he's.
Speaker B:But he's huge.
Speaker B:But he's creepy and he disappears at the drop of a hat.
Speaker B:That's scary.
Speaker B:But it gets old to the point that I'm like, but just shoot him.
Speaker B:Or okay, we know shooting him doesn't work.
Speaker A:Get in the car, get the out.
Speaker B:And leave the town.
Speaker B:Problem solved.
Speaker B:Mike Myers doesn't drive.
Speaker B:He just walks real slow.
Speaker B:You got.
Speaker B:You drive to the other side of the country, you got.
Speaker B:However long it takes his ass to walk.
Speaker A:This one, he drives.
Speaker A:But that's just to get him there.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's fair.
Speaker B:But like, that's the part where I'm just like, I.
Speaker B:And if he just wants the house,.
Speaker A:Let him have the house.
Speaker B:Give him the house.
Speaker B:Move.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, there's so many pieces to me that I'm just like, I'm good.
Speaker B:So this is just a weaker version of a lot of things out there for me.
Speaker A:Well, another thing that like, I was having trouble balancing is the hokey with the actual scary bits.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So for example, when Jamie Lee Curtis walks in, you get her best friend sprawled out in the bed with the headstone, here lies Judith Myers.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like that's amazingly creepy.
Speaker A:And then she, you know, Paul just swings out or whatever.
Speaker A:Bob, whatever, whoever it was, just swings out of the closet.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And you're going through.
Speaker A:She's finding everybody there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's like terrifying.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:But then earlier we have the stupid scene where, you know, Bob gets killed downstairs.
Speaker A:And then Michael Myers comes up wearing the sheet and Bob's glasses.
Speaker A:And I'm like, this.
Speaker A:I was like, this is dumb.
Speaker A:Because once again, it lasts way too long.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It would be way better because Michael Myers has a mask.
Speaker A:That's the whole point.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, it would be far creepier if it was like, oh, Bob put a mask on.
Speaker A:Haha, very funny.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like you don't need the sheet, you're just adding.
Speaker A:Trying almost to add funny into it.
Speaker A:And I'm like.
Speaker A:And so it just lasts way Too long, it's too hokey for.
Speaker A:Then, you know, three minutes later, you're seeing one of the most terrifying kind of scenes of this movie or even in this genre of just this moment where.
Speaker A:Oh, that's where the headstone went.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then I don't necessarily have a problem in this movie of the gunshots because it's been established.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Donald Pleasant's character is a doctor.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So you know, he's blinking.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:But the problem is that you had these.
Speaker A:You, you do too much damage to Michael leading up to it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That it doesn't fit.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So the poker that gets stabbed into him or even the hanger or, you know, the dog and all these things that come up, you know, are proving that this guy is unkillable.
Speaker A:So then by the time you get to the gunshots, you're kind of like, okay, whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But I, I would almost rather have, you know, Donald plus just missed.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:You can sew it, show it or show Michael getting hit.
Speaker A:Maybe it's like, oh, one hit him.
Speaker A:And it would just be a line at the end where, yeah, he got hit by one type of a thing, but you know, six shots, center mass.
Speaker A:Like you're saying.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's just like at that point the dude is losing blood at a rapid rate.
Speaker A:And so then having this payoff of, you know, look out the window, he's gone.
Speaker A:Doesn't make any sense.
Speaker A:I'd much rather have you lean into maybe one hit him.
Speaker A:You know, you think you got him.
Speaker A:It could be a simple line with, no, sheriff, I got him.
Speaker A:And it's like, no, we dug five bullets out of the wall.
Speaker A:You may have, you may have graced.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And so then you have this reason for leaving it open ended.
Speaker A:But you do too much damage throughout the movie.
Speaker A:And I think it's far scary.
Speaker A:Like you said, like, this guy's just big.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:He's, he's at this point, he's targeting teenagers.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, it's, it's an easily one sided fight that's happening.
Speaker A:And you can still keep the ambush tactics that we see and you can still keep the slow walking moving.
Speaker A:He's just better positioned throughout the entire movie.
Speaker A:You don't need this added Supernatural.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Benefit that, you know, he gets because I mean, throughout, you know, as we get into later sequels, that's where his real immortality becomes apparent.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Here it's not so much until he takes all six rounds and then just gets up and walks away.
Speaker A:But up to that point.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like he's in the backseat of the car.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:He's killing by ambush or.
Speaker A:And so it, it's like you again, you're doing two different things almost.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you're trying to combine the two.
Speaker A:Whereas someone like Jason or Freddy who lives in the dream world, like you can unload into them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You want that gun matter because they're not human.
Speaker A:Or it's been established that they've, they're existing in something different that's other than human.
Speaker A:But Michael Myers, he's human, as far as we know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:The problem is he just keeps coming back, coming back, come back.
Speaker A:And apparently he is immortal.
Speaker A:But it's never been said that he's immortal.
Speaker A:It's never been canonized or talked about.
Speaker A:It's just, oh, well, we're gonna keep making money off of this guy.
Speaker A:So he's, he's immortal.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:But the problem is again, you have all, everything set up to just make this guy super scary because he's bigger than you.
Speaker A:He knows it.
Speaker A:He's stronger than you.
Speaker A:He's going to move at his own pace because he.
Speaker A:The end is a foregone conclusion.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's just a matter of how long you can stay ahead of him.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And so it's just, you know, it's like again, just missed the mark by what you were trying to accomplish in it.
Speaker A:And then you throw in the hokey on top of it and a scene like the Here Lies, Judith Myers is lost.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because I'm sitting there going, what in the.
Speaker A:Are you making me watch?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, no, I'm with you.
Speaker B:I, I agree with you.
Speaker B:Like it's, yeah.
Speaker B:It almost like it didn't know what it wanted to do.
Speaker B:Longer it went.
Speaker B:And then like you said, it was trying to throw some humor in there and it didn't land.
Speaker B:No, it's not in my opinion.
Speaker B:And it looked goofy.
Speaker B:And you're like, what?
Speaker B:But I, I liked, I think what I do like is there are some really great jump scares in it.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:There are some that you're like, oh, God damn it.
Speaker B:Like, even to.
Speaker B:Even to this day, Like I hadn't watched it in a very long time and there were a couple that I was like, oh, I forgot about that.
Speaker B:Because he just pops up or pops out of places and you're like, mother fucker.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:And I love a good jump scare.
Speaker B:So this was like, it was good to see that.
Speaker B:So they did very good at that.
Speaker B:But that was how.
Speaker B:I mean, that was kind of the 80s horror movies.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, 70s 80s was.
Speaker B:Well, let's pack in as many jump scares as we could get and we'll call it a horror movie.
Speaker B:So I don't know, it's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Listen, we wouldn't have horror the way we have horror today if it weren't for this movie.
Speaker B:But at the same time, like, it's literally that, like, it's the foundation on what really good horror movies and really sustainable horror movies have been built on.
Speaker B:Even its sequels, obviously, of course, couldn't be what they are without it.
Speaker B:And the original.
Speaker B:And, and it's obviously not the superior movie, but it's.
Speaker B:It did what it was supposed to do.
Speaker B:And, And I would imagine in the late 70s, like, there were a lot of people that really thought this was like peak horror.
Speaker B:Scary.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Like uncomfortable.
Speaker A:Where are you going before this?
Speaker A:Yeah, like, it does.
Speaker A:Doesn't really exist.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:And so it's.
Speaker A:It's very much the first of its kind.
Speaker A:You can now, you know, we're going back 50 years and it's like, oh, yeah, this.
Speaker A:This was taking its first baby steps so that other movies could walk and then run.
Speaker A: again, you know, I was around: Speaker A:I've been.
Speaker B: I wasn't around for: Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so I, I can't stand for that.
Speaker A:But it's.
Speaker A:It very much for me seems to operate in a bubble of its time.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, it was a big shift.
Speaker B:It was one of the bigger shifted movies from like the Hitchcock era.
Speaker B:Like the real psychological thrillers that at the time were considered horror.
Speaker B:Because I watched a lot of Hitchcock and there's some horror.
Speaker B:I mean, me too.
Speaker B:There's some horror.
Speaker B:But his is more like psychological thriller.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Like, you gotta.
Speaker B:You're like, I'm uncomfortable.
Speaker B:It's not like, oh, I'm scared.
Speaker B:Like, so this was like a.
Speaker B:Similar to what we talked about with Scream.
Speaker B:Like, it was a foundational shift for horror and it was the first of its kind.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, we're gonna actually play on the fact that in the 70s we had a lot of serial killers in real life that were coming out and being found and recognizing that this was a thing.
Speaker B:They were like, well, it.
Speaker B:Let's make some movies about it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so this was where the slasher genre was born, which is still alive and thriving today.
Speaker B:So you have to give it its flowers in that respect.
Speaker B:But you can tell that it was the first and it was something that people weren't prepared for.
Speaker B:When you look back on it Again, like you said, it exists in that bubble.
Speaker B:It doesn't hold up long term, but we wouldn't have the things that we have today from a horror fanatic like myself.
Speaker B:Like, I have to say thank you, Halloween.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because I wouldn't have the genre that I have today and fell in love with three years later, or, you know, whatever it was 10 years later when I was a kid.
Speaker A:Thanks, Halloween.
Speaker B:Yeah, thanks, Halloween.
Speaker B:That's funny.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, but if.
Speaker B:Listen, it's not a great movie.
Speaker B:It really is at the end of the day.
Speaker B:So should we rate it?
Speaker A:Let's do it.
Speaker B:You get to go first.
Speaker A:I'm going to give it a solid two.
Speaker A:I think there's so many little bits and bobs that just do not work for it.
Speaker A:And the things that it gets right, it gets really right.
Speaker A:But it's very much almost like the trial and error.
Speaker A:So as it's the first one of its kind, it gets all the trial and then the later iterations are able to pick and choose what worked and what didn't.
Speaker A:And I think it.
Speaker A:All of it could have worked, but a lot of this movie, unfortunately, is like having to be carried by Donald Pleasence.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he was wrong for this role.
Speaker A:Doesn't fit in it at all.
Speaker A:And it's a bummer because I do really like him, but it.
Speaker A:His.
Speaker A:His performance is just wrong for what you need.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And having this kind of be your backbone doesn't.
Speaker A:Doesn't carry through.
Speaker A:And so it's.
Speaker A:It's hard to look at and be like, oh, yeah, no, this is amazing movie.
Speaker A:It really isn't.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's not very good at all.
Speaker A:But again, like you said, you have to give it props for being the first one through the gate.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, I think I'll give it a two.
Speaker A:But I don't.
Speaker A:Not watching it again.
Speaker A:And it's not the typical reason of, you know, avoiding it because it's a horror film.
Speaker A:It's because it wasn't really all that good.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I'm gonna give it a two and a half.
Speaker B:Right in the middle of the road for me.
Speaker B:And I think, you know, some of that is nostalgia.
Speaker B:Some of it is like giving it its part, its props, its flowers, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker B:And then on the flip side, like, from a story perspective, it starts out really good and then it really kind of loses its.
Speaker B:It's like the wind dies out of its sails.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:About halfway through.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And then starts to become redundant and less scary because you're like, oh, well, we know we can't stop him, so he's just gonna.
Speaker B:He's gonna get there.
Speaker B:What are we gonna do?
Speaker B:And the intensity kind of falls out.
Speaker B:But early on in the movie, like, the.
Speaker B:The stalking aspect of what he does is very unnerving and is very good.
Speaker B:And it sets up a lot of really great jump scares and some intensity.
Speaker B:And then, like I said, it just kind of starts to die down.
Speaker B:And so it's hard for me to score it higher when I know, based on what came after it, how good it could have been.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And, and then it's.
Speaker B:It's ironic because they've even tried to remake this multiple times and, like, from the same story.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:In certain aspects it was better, and in certain aspects it was worse.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And so it's one of those ones that's tricky, I think, from a storyline perspective, because how far down one road or the other do you go?
Speaker B:John Carpenter is a genius.
Speaker B:He's a great author.
Speaker B:Like, if you've never read his books or a lot of his scripts, like, he's a great horror writer.
Speaker B:From a directing standpoint, it was good that he didn't continue to direct a lot because I don't think he's a great director.
Speaker B:I think he's a phenomenal writer.
Speaker A:Anyway.
Speaker B:Yeah, two and a half.
Speaker B:For me, this one's not one.
Speaker B:I go back to a lot.
Speaker B:Like, it's been a long time since I'd watched the original Halloween, and I don't choose to watch it because I have my.
Speaker B:Of my favorite horror movies that I stick with.
Speaker B:And so I don't know that I'll watch this.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm sure I will, but not like, actively like, I'm gonna go watch Halloween.
Speaker B:It'll just be it's on, or someone was like, hey, let's watch Halloween.
Speaker B:I'm like, great, let's watch it.
Speaker B:But it's not.
Speaker B:I'm not gonna actively seek it out.
Speaker B:So, yeah, there it is.
Speaker B:Halloween.
Speaker B:It's a good theme we have.
Speaker B:It's a Halloween.
Speaker B:It'll be close to Halloween.
Speaker A:It lined up pretty.
Speaker A:Pretty good.
Speaker B:I like it.
Speaker B:But very looking forward to talking about next week's movie, though, if you.
Speaker B:Have you watched it yet?
Speaker A:Not yet, no.
Speaker B:I'm so excited.
Speaker B:I think you'll like it, especially where you.
Speaker B:You talk about Hitchcock and liking Hitchcock.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's got some more of the Hitchcockian theming, if you will.
Speaker B:Anyway, looking forward to it.
Speaker B:So with that, Alec, tell everybody where they can find us when we're not running away from a slow walking unkillable serial killer.
Speaker A:I will always be running away from a slow walking serial killer.
Speaker A:I don't know what you're smoking, but the best place to find us is on YouTube where you can see our faces as we talk and discuss and dissect any and all movies that we do on the podcast.
Speaker A:Aside from that, the best place to get involved is on Patreon at what's our Verge reviews where you can get involved in the content creation.
Speaker A:Say it again as we've been saying all month, this month was a complete Patreon pick.
Speaker A:So special thanks to our current patron Charles for selecting the movies and sending them through the front side of Patreon is absolutely free to get involved in when we do vote.
Speaker A:You can vote for free when you get involved in the content there so you can actually get involved in the content creation of the podcast.
Speaker A:Behind a little itty bitty paywall on the Patreon is access to all of our extra content.
Speaker A:We have upwards of 700 plus videos, everything ranging from bloopers and outtakes all the way up to full length episodes of movies that nobody should watch.
Speaker A:But Charles made us do it and that is behind a little bit of paywall, but you get access to all the content.
Speaker A:However, if you want to get involved in the voting aspect, that is 100% free on the Patreon.
Speaker A:So go check us out there with that.
Speaker A:Don't forget w gg go get your 10% off your order with code.
Speaker A:Our verdict helps us grow the podcast.
Speaker A:We appreciate that.
Speaker A:And with that I'll kick it back to the Titan of Terror, the Colossus of clout.
Speaker B:A J.J. yes sir.
Speaker B:Thanks Alec.
Speaker B:Yep, go do all those things.
Speaker B:Go check us out.
Speaker B:We appreciate it and as always, we appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker B:We'll catch you on the next one.
Speaker A:Hasta la vista baby.
Speaker B:Cinematic out.
