2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
We conclude that 2001: A Space Odyssey is a seminal yet uneven film, and we rate it two and a half out of five. We agree that the film’s portrayal of a rogue artificial intelligence is the most compelling and timely element. We found the opening ape sequence protracted and unnecessary, and we criticized the extensive silence and lack of human dialogue. We acknowledge the film’s vast influence on later science fiction cinema despite our reservations about its pacing and coherence. Alec recounts a personal viewing anecdote in which he fell asleep and the steam moved to a different movie but awoke thinking he was still watching 2001, which illustrates Kubrick’s disorienting style. We recommend revisiting the HAL segments and the Jupiter sequence, as those portions best demonstrate the film’s enduring relevance.
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Transcript
I. I fall asleep.
Speaker A:I kind of wake up when he's going through the wormhole.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So I get all the visuals through and everything like that.
Speaker A:I close my eyes again for what feels like 30 seconds, wake up, and I have no idea.
Speaker A:But I am 20 minutes into fantastic Planet, so.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:Have you seen Fantastic Planet?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I'm in a new movie.
Speaker B:Welcome to the ones of podcast where we f ourselves cinematic judge and Jerry.
Speaker B:My name is JJ Carter with my co host Alec Burgess.
Speaker A:Let's get it.
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Speaker B:That's about all I got on that one.
Speaker A:Don't tell AI about us.
Speaker B:No,.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:They know enough about us as it is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we are into the final week of September, which has been Kubrick month, thanks to Charles.
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Speaker B:And to you.
Speaker B: into the last Week of Kubrick: Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:It was, of course written and directed by Stanley Kubrick.
Speaker B:It stars Kirdula because I dulia.
Speaker B:I don't know Gary Lockwood.
Speaker B:I didn't know Gary.
Speaker B:William Sylvester, Daniel Richter, Leonard Rossiter, Margaret Tysack, Robert Beatty, Sean Sullivan and Ed Bishop.
Speaker B:It's about a mysterious artifact that is uncovered on the moon.
Speaker B:A spacecraft manned by two scientists and one supercomputer as they're dispatched to Jupiter to find its origins.
Speaker B:Meaning the origins of the mysterious artifact.
Speaker B:Since that is not very explanatory in this sentence.
Speaker B:It's a busted ass synopsis sentence that kind of makes it worse.
Speaker B:Not that this is a fully understandable movie to begin with, but simple in its complexity.
Speaker B:This was my movie.
Speaker B:And I only.
Speaker B: icked this movie because it's: Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's Cubric's film, right?
Speaker B:Like, he's got everybody.
Speaker B:You talk about cubic and we know Full Metal Jacket and you know all the movies that we watch this month, right?
Speaker B:Like say Cubert.
Speaker B:But to me, this is the film that launched Kubrick into like meteoric, the stratosphere, right?
Speaker B:I don't understand why it did, but it did.
Speaker B: Kubrick without talking about: Speaker B:So, yeah, I mean, listen, that's why I picked it.
Speaker B:I didn't pick it because I love it.
Speaker B:I didn't pick it because it makes sense, but I picked it because it's, It's Cubric's film, in my opinion.
Speaker B:Like, I don't think it's his best film, but it's the film that when someone says Cubric, it's the first thing I think of.
Speaker B:And I think it's probably the first thing a lot of people think of, unless you're super young.
Speaker B:Meaning probably Eyes Wide Shut, because it was his only real modern.
Speaker B:I say modern, but it was his last film.
Speaker B:It was the most recent.
Speaker B:So anyway, that was a lot of exposition that was unnecessary around this film.
Speaker B:However, let's get into this film and why I.
Speaker B:Outside of why I picked it.
Speaker B:Like, it's also.
Speaker B:It has some interesting elements.
Speaker B:Like, especially visually, like it's a visually interesting film.
Speaker B:There's also a ton of wasted space in this movie, but I'm sure we'll talk more about that.
Speaker B:Alec, I know you had seen this movie.
Speaker B:Get the out.
Speaker B: You had never seen: Speaker A:Never seen it.
Speaker A:And have I got a viewing experience for you.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B: You had never seen: Speaker A:I. I'd avoided it.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:For this long.
Speaker A:So get this, right?
Speaker A:So it's available on hbo.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's why I watched it on hbo.
Speaker A:So I've been doing a lot of traveling recently, Right.
Speaker A:So I fell asleep during watching this.
Speaker A:So I fall asleep right around the time.
Speaker A:Right near the end.
Speaker A:Didn't know it was the end, but.
Speaker A:So it was.
Speaker A:It was one of those sleeps where you're asleep, but you kind of still feel everything going on, so you don't know how long you've been asleep.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So I fall asleep.
Speaker A:I kind of wake up when he's going through the wormhole.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:So I get all the visuals.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And everything like that.
Speaker A:To close my eyes again for what feels like 30 seconds, wake up, and I have no idea.
Speaker A:But I am 20 minutes into fantastic Planet.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker A:Have you seen Fantastic?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I'm in a new movie.
Speaker A:This is how.
Speaker A:This is how, like, amazing freaking accurate Kubrick is to never let them know your next move.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:I am in a completely different movie.
Speaker A:But because it's a space Odyssey, right?
Speaker A:I wake up in animated Fantastic Planet thinking I am still in A Space Odyssey.
Speaker B:That is hilarious.
Speaker A:I am.
Speaker A:I am thinking that poor little whatever his name was, John or Jack or Jimbo, it went through a wormhole into a whole new world of animation, and he's now a pet for the aliens in Fantastic Planet.
Speaker B:Oh, it's amazing.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:So now I'm awake again because I'm like, what the Is happening?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I sit and I watch Fantastic Planet.
Speaker B:You watch the whole thing, not the whole thing.
Speaker A:For about 20 more minutes.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:Because I never checked the time, right?
Speaker A:I haven't checked the time on the movie.
Speaker A:So after 20 minutes, I'm like, how much?
Speaker A:Like, this is stupid.
Speaker A:Check it.
Speaker A:I'm now 10 minutes away from the end of Fantastic Planet.
Speaker B:Me.
Speaker B:Amazing.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:So I go back, watch the ending of A Space Odyssey, and I almost prefer the Fantastic.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:As you should.
Speaker A:Because I was so confused.
Speaker A:But at the same time, like, oh, no, that's just.
Speaker A:That's just cubic.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:He's doing Kubrick things like, this is fine.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:He went through a wormhole.
Speaker A:Now he's, you know, pet on some fantastic planet with a bunch of weird aliens that are making him fight.
Speaker A:And I was like, yeah, this completely normal four tracks.
Speaker A:Tracks.
Speaker A:Poor guy.
Speaker A:He's gotta figure this out.
Speaker B:So funny.
Speaker B:Dude, that's fantastic.
Speaker A:So, yeah, that was my opening viewing experience to A Space Odyssey.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You gotta be kidding me.
Speaker A:When I figured it out, I had to go back and watch the ending.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I should just.
Speaker A:I should have just left it as, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, you should have made that the movie response.
Speaker B:That's crazy.
Speaker B:Hilarious, dude.
Speaker B:Now that's how you experience.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A: That's how you experience: Speaker A:So it's this.
Speaker A:This is a.
Speaker A:Just generally, it was a hard movie to get through.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker A:But there, like you said, there's really cool parts to it that make it cool.
Speaker A:And there's.
Speaker A:It's also.
Speaker A:I think this is what tied in everything for me is like how influential Kubrick is still in movies.
Speaker A:Like, as weird as they are to watch and experience.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, elements of them get pulled everywhere.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Still to this day, there is so much that is used from his movies.
Speaker A:And this was like the easiest direct to comparison that I could make sure.
Speaker A:I was like, oh, yeah, okay, here's the 45 movies that all pulled something from this one.
Speaker A:And that just then it was able to easier to connect the docs for all those other movies.
Speaker A:Like how influential this guy still is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:To Hollywood today.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Nuts.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I was like, son of a. JJ I know.
Speaker A:Kind of movie put me to sleep and I woke up in a whole new universe.
Speaker B:Dude, that's hilarious.
Speaker B:That's epic story right there.
Speaker B:See, this is why I love the podcast.
Speaker B:Because you end up with some weird ass like that that would only happen because of the podcast.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Amazing, amazing story.
Speaker B:Listen, dude, I.
Speaker B:This movie.
Speaker B:I'm with you.
Speaker B:Like, this is another.
Speaker B:And to your point, it's a good call out.
Speaker B:Like, it really is like such a. Yeah.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker B:There's callbacks.
Speaker B:There's influence that you can see everywhere.
Speaker B:Especially with this one.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Like, I think this one in Full Metal Jacket probably have two of the most.
Speaker B:Like, you're watching and you start to see pieces.
Speaker B: ed that straight from goddamn: Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:And I mean, it was so influential that it changed movie intros for this studio studio for decades with the.
Speaker B:Like that.
Speaker B:That song.
Speaker B:Everybody knows that music.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And it's not because that was part of it before this movie.
Speaker B:It wasn't this movie launched so heavily and people were like, this movie's amazing that that became permanently a fixture for this movie studio.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, it's like, Jesus.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's weird because, honestly, in my opinion, the movie's not that good.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Subjectively or objectively.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B: Like, I understand why in: Speaker B:It was different.
Speaker B:It's two and a half hours long.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:Which was unfucking heard of in the 60s and 70s, right?
Speaker B:Like, so to have this come out from Stanley Kubrick and it be weird.
Speaker B:And it was space exploration, which at the time was very relevant.
Speaker B:And you know, what could happen if it.
Speaker B:You know, if we did this and there's so many AI and nobody could even fathom a computer that would be like that back then.
Speaker B:So it's just like, there's so many elements to it.
Speaker B:But if you look at it from a film perspective, in my opinion, it's meh.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What other movie do we have 30 minutes of, like, ape colonies figuring out how to kill each other because they touch a rock.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, and it's so bad.
Speaker B:Like, the monkey suits are terrible.
Speaker B:The way they're dancing around is horrid.
Speaker B:And then like, the beating of the rubber monkey suit with the bone.
Speaker B:I'm like, okay, this is the weirdest.
Speaker B:And it's 40 minutes that you're like, oh, my God.
Speaker B:There's no sound.
Speaker B:Which is something we'll talk about, I'm sure, here in a minute.
Speaker B:In more depth.
Speaker B:But, like, objectively, it's long and boring and weird and there's no real through lines to me.
Speaker B:Like, because of the jerky nature of, like, the time leaps that we have.
Speaker B:Like, you got the early CRO Magnon apes, right?
Speaker B:And then you have the jump to the future where now all of a sudden we're like superheroes.
Speaker B:And then we jump even further 18 months later, and we're traveling to Jupiter to figure out this rock because it sent a message to Jupiter.
Speaker B:And I'm just like, it's Apache at best.
Speaker B:And so it.
Speaker B:Typical Kubrick, right?
Speaker B:Like, it's all over the place.
Speaker B:And he had a story he wanted to tell.
Speaker B:He didn't care how long it was going to take him or what he had to do to get it through there.
Speaker B:So I respect it, but I don't love it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:For me, the.
Speaker A:The most interesting part is when we're going to Jupiter, of course.
Speaker A:And so it's makes.
Speaker A:It's me.
Speaker A:It was made far less interesting after dealing with the hour and 20 minutes to get there.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And so by that point, I was, you know, like, trying to keep my eyes open, but at the same time, it's just.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm not invested really anymore because it's like, hey, you know what happens when we get to Jupiter?
Speaker A:Are we now gonna have.
Speaker A:We're just gonna go back to the beginning.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because we're just gonna say.
Speaker A:And we're gonna replay from the beginning.
Speaker A:Like, it's one of those things where I was.
Speaker A:I had a hard time really getting into the really in interesting parts, which is you have this.
Speaker A:How.
Speaker A:Computer.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker A:You know, exactly how.
Speaker A:What we're kind of dealing with now with AI.
Speaker A:And if you give AI a prompt about shutting itself down versus human domination.
Speaker A:Takes human domination every single time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A: And, you know, this is what,: Speaker A:So computers are in their infancy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:At this point, they're, you know, if.
Speaker A:If there is one, it's an entire building.
Speaker A:As I say.
Speaker B:It's a whole building.
Speaker A:And so it's.
Speaker A:It's, like, way ahead of its time for the story that he's telling of what would happen if you give this artificial intelligence autonomy to complete all this.
Speaker A:And so that part's interesting with, you know, how discovering, you know, like, the whole reading the lips thing, I was like, okay, that's cool.
Speaker A:Like, you take all these precautions, but you're still not smarter than the supercomputer.
Speaker B:Mm.
Speaker A:And then the steps that go through there, like, that's interesting to me.
Speaker A:And that's on a level of, like, the Alien movies, to me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Just different antagonists dealing with.
Speaker A:And so, like, this whole deep space genre where there's no help coming.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And then you have a malicious kind of entity that's inputted into it.
Speaker A:That's interesting.
Speaker A:Give me far more of that.
Speaker A:Rather than.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The apes beating the skeleton with a bone for five minutes to show this specific visual that he wanted to show.
Speaker A:I didn't need that at all.
Speaker B:Nope.
Speaker A:I could have come in right at the moon stuff and been okay.
Speaker A:But I would have much rather just contained in the trip to Jupiter.
Speaker A:Give a little bit of backstory about why we're going to Jupiter.
Speaker A:Because whoever did the voice for Halloween, like, very, very good.
Speaker A:And telling a story.
Speaker A:The story of how it got there would have been.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Douglas Rain.
Speaker A:Douglas Rain.
Speaker A:Great voice.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Like, that's.
Speaker A:I. I'm not.
Speaker A:I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that's the kind of Exposition, I think you'd be okay with.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Is coming from a voice like Douglas with How's background in it to it.
Speaker A:So you can just give a pre.
Speaker A:Brief synopsis.
Speaker A:Synopsis.
Speaker A:And spend far more time in this decline of Hal.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because dude just straight up murders the three other scientists in like five seconds.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, you almost don't even realize it's happening.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Until it's over and done with.
Speaker A:And there's far less time spent on that than there is with the apes at the beginning.
Speaker A:And it's like.
Speaker A:So it's like, I would much rather the switch and spend almost all our time on the Space Odyssey, because that's a real shocking opener.
Speaker A:Is a Space Odyssey.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:Nope, nope.
Speaker A:Caveman apes.
Speaker A:That's the missing.
Speaker A:That's what.
Speaker A:That's where we're starting.
Speaker A:And so in my mind, the first thing I kind of thought of was, oh, no, it's a History of the World, Part 0.
Speaker A:But it's not going to be funny because it's Kubrick.
Speaker A:And we're gonna go through.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I was thinking we're gonna go through stages of this to get to the actual space Odyssey.
Speaker A:And I was thinking, oh, dear God, please.
Speaker A:No,.
Speaker B:That's fair.
Speaker B:That's fair.
Speaker B:Yeah, I. Oh, it's too long.
Speaker B:And I'm with you.
Speaker B:Like, I think I.
Speaker B:And like, as we do on this podcast.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, I've always been thinking, but I've been doing this for decades with this movie, like, figuring out what would make it better.
Speaker B:And I'm with you.
Speaker B:Like, I don't love exposition and I don't love narration, but Hal has such an interesting story.
Speaker B:Like, how cool would it have been if the movie, instead of opening with apes after a.
Speaker B:The longest movie introduction ever of like a two minutes of black screen and then the whole raising of the sun.
Speaker B:And it just was a mess, in my opinion.
Speaker B:But how cool instead, if.
Speaker B:If during the black screen we just hear Hal going, I couldn't stop him.
Speaker B:And then like, you're like, whoa, what?
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And maybe just because Hal tends to repeat himself a lot, like, I couldn't stop him.
Speaker B:And then, then you cut to the.
Speaker B:The futuristic world.
Speaker B:I don't need the ape peace.
Speaker B:Like, I get what he was trying to do.
Speaker B:Like how we learned the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The power of violence.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And dominance by violence.
Speaker B:Like, I'm not.
Speaker B:I don't need you to hold.
Speaker B:And Maybe in the 60s and 70s they did need you to hold your hand.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:But I don't need Kubrick to hold my hand to understand that by nature humans can be nasty.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And we do ugly things to each other.
Speaker B:I didn't need to see it be a learned behavior.
Speaker B:I already knew that.
Speaker B:However, I think it could have been cool if we start with something like that and then Hal almost narrating.
Speaker B:Or.
Speaker B:And maybe he doesn't even say, I couldn't stop him.
Speaker B:Maybe it opens with I can't stop him.
Speaker B:And then we play out to the whole first.
Speaker B:You know, this.
Speaker B:I guess it's the second act of the movie where we're learning about the upgrade.
Speaker B:And then they find the obelisk and.
Speaker A:Then,.
Speaker B:Then it cuts to this journey through space because that gives you more time as well, to your point, to be able to tell the story of what's going on on the ship.
Speaker B:Because that's dastardly.
Speaker B:And again, you don't even realize it at first.
Speaker B:You're like, oh, is this part of the malfunction of the ship?
Speaker B:And then you're like, oh, no, this is Hal.
Speaker B:Like, that's Dastard.
Speaker B:How 9,000 up.
Speaker B:So, you know, it's, it's.
Speaker B:There are interesting parts to the film, but you get.
Speaker B:So it takes you so long to get to those interesting parts of fighting through very confusing and uninteresting parts.
Speaker B:It's it.
Speaker B:And let me back up.
Speaker B:This is a weird movie to me because it makes more sense after you've seen it once than the first time you watch it.
Speaker B:I'm sure.
Speaker B:And maybe you can attest if it happened, because the first time I watched it, I remember watching it, I think I was like 19 years old the first time I watched it.
Speaker B:And I was like, I'm so confused.
Speaker B:Now I watch it and I can see in hindsight and in understanding already how where the film's going for what the beginning of the film is meant to do.
Speaker B:But at the first time I watched, I'm like, what the is going on right now?
Speaker B:And so I think it detracts, especially from a first time viewing.
Speaker B:But again, that's.
Speaker B:It's such a cubic thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's also weird, like we mentioned talked about a little bit last week, but the timing of it.
Speaker A: Because this is: Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I went off the top of my head.
Speaker A:But this like, I wonder if the 8 portion is just kind of Kubrick thumbing this nose at religion.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Or this idea of creationism.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And just so he's throwing that in there just to be like, screw you and add in.
Speaker A:Because this Whole idea of, like, aliens teaching humanity stuff is.
Speaker A:Is very prevalent today.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A: than what you'd experience in: Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so it could be.
Speaker A:Just be that once again, Kubrick is doing his Kubrick thing of introducing an alternative theory to really push back against the established dominant one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so again, we're looking back going, well, this is stupid, but back then, it might have been, like, the biggest taboo that ever in a movie.
Speaker A:And this is Cooper taking his stand against the establishment.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A: ing filming locations for his: Speaker A:But that's neither here nor there.
Speaker A:But it's.
Speaker A:But it's one of those things where we're going back again to a movie that is 60 years old and we're sitting there because I'm doing the same thing.
Speaker A:I don't want this.
Speaker A:I don't need this.
Speaker A:Why is this here?
Speaker A:But I do want to have to wonder if the reason he put that in there is just to thumb his nose at whoever is, you know, the.
Speaker A:The dominant kind of theory or the establishment as a whole and saying, nope, I'm putting it in here that the reason we're violent is because aliens told us to be.
Speaker A:And all you.
Speaker A:If you think differently.
Speaker A:And so then.
Speaker A:Then just driving at home by making that the largest portion of the movie, if you break it up by sequence.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so, because.
Speaker A:Same thing, like, I don't need it.
Speaker A:I don't want it.
Speaker A:What I want is the far more interesting to our day and age, which is the rogue AI.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A: Whereas again,: Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because again, it's.
Speaker A:Its entire buildings are what your processor are.
Speaker A:You have, what, three megabytes of total, you know, memory usage that you're dealing with this time, if you're dealing with anything at all.
Speaker A: that you could have this HAL: Speaker B:Or Grok or Claude.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That you are essentially solving these incredible, you know, problems with or predicting the, you know, fake downfall of the spaceship is one of those things where it's.
Speaker A:It's so far out there because, you know, again, like, what kind of.
Speaker A:I'm seeing the influences had on Terminator.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And terminator is still 16 years away.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It's in Chachi BT for which is.
Speaker A:The direct parallel I can make is 50 years out.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so it's.
Speaker A:It's insane to really kind of Think about what he's doing.
Speaker A:And the.
Speaker A:Again, it's, it's like that generational thing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because I'm sitting here saying the same thing you are, which is I want more of this rogue AI.
Speaker A:Because that's what's interesting.
Speaker A:Because that's what we're dealing with in the immediacy of it is give us more of that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But he's, he's essentially telling a, a 60 year story or a story that spans 60 years to essentially 60 different years of audience.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:In one story.
Speaker A:And kind of just flipping a coin on which end you're gonna like or approve of and gathering a few people that go in the middle.
Speaker A:And so the longevity of this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is ridiculous and insane.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, it's.
Speaker A:It's a very uncomfortable thing to think about.
Speaker A:But yeah.
Speaker A:I'm the very long wind to say exactly the same thing.
Speaker A:Like, give me less monkeys.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Give me more.
Speaker B:How.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I want a lot of how.
Speaker B:I think and how is stamped is as one of the most like, is a extremely well known character in cinema history.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like you can say how and a lot of people will be like, I get it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, and it's, it's so well played.
Speaker B:Like there's just.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So the other thing that drives me absolutely bat crazy with this movie is the amount of silence.
Speaker B:And I, I don't have a problem with silence in movies.
Speaker B:I think silence can be unbelievably effective in a lot, in a, in so many ways.
Speaker B:And I think it's underutilized in a lot of modern films.
Speaker B:This, however, took it way too far.
Speaker B:I mean, the first 10 minutes of the movie, the only thing you hear is music.
Speaker B:And at first, like, I, I've seen this movie a few times and I still started playing it and I was like, did I hit pause?
Speaker B:Because you're sitting there with a black screen for at least a minute, two maybe.
Speaker B:And I'm like, oh, that's right, we got the Sunrise and Over the Galaxy.
Speaker B:And I, I forget that that's a part of this whole thing.
Speaker B:And then again, we don't hear a single word of dialogue for the first 40 minutes because it's all prehistoric monkeys and, and them learning to again, dominance through violence.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so it's like, I hate that.
Speaker B:And then we get into the space show even.
Speaker B:But all throughout, it's not just that.
Speaker B:There's so many moments of like, things happening on the screen that are not.
Speaker B:There's no audio, there's no.
Speaker B:And I'M Unless.
Speaker B:This is so counterintuitive to me because I hate exposition.
Speaker B:So much needless exposition.
Speaker B:But I also think you need dialogue.
Speaker A:Well, it's the lack of conversation, even between the two astronauts.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because we get that whole sequence where they're watching separately on their iPads.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Nothing Kubrick put in there.
Speaker A:But, you know, they're watching stuff and they're eating there.
Speaker A:There's so much moment or so much time where they are together and there's no dialogue.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And really, like, the only conversation they have is when they're discussing how to shut down.
Speaker A:Hell yeah.
Speaker A:Like, that's the only one.
Speaker A:And that happens near the end of the movie.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:There's just nothing.
Speaker A:So there's.
Speaker A:There's no conversation happening.
Speaker A:It's just silence.
Speaker A:Or you get the.
Speaker A:The conversation with Hal, but the actual human to human conversation is.
Speaker A:Dialogue is not there in this movie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I think the longest bit of dialogue you get between other humans is like the group meeting they have.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:In the middle of the movie.
Speaker B:And that's it.
Speaker B:And then like, there's also the awkward ass.
Speaker B:There's some weird choices in it.
Speaker B:So what was the.
Speaker B:The when the dude is up in the space station or whatever it is, and like, on the way to the moon and he.
Speaker B:He's in the.
Speaker B:The gravityless bathroom.
Speaker B:I'm like, why?
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:To what end is that necessary?
Speaker B:Like, it just felt weird.
Speaker B:But again, that's another sequence of like, I. I feel like he's like, well, we got to fill it with something.
Speaker B:But I don't want him talking.
Speaker B:I want him to see, like, the downtime of being on your own in space.
Speaker B:I don't give a.
Speaker B:About that does nothing for me that adds no value to this movie.
Speaker B:Especially.
Speaker B:Listen, if you're gonna show me that we're being told to be a violent race of.
Speaker B:Of a violent species by another group of another species in some way, shape or form, then let's lean into that.
Speaker B:Like, show me more of the violence.
Speaker B:Show me more of the things that we're trying to learn about human nature.
Speaker B:And then show me.
Speaker B:Because it feels like that the future people are less violent.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Which, I mean, I would hope so.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:As we continue to evolve and grow as a species and all the things.
Speaker B:But we don't play into any of that.
Speaker B:Like, it's just this whole journey of a group of people a couple of times and then like three different times, and then you're like, but why?
Speaker B:To what end?
Speaker B:So that we can go Down a black hole.
Speaker B:And we.
Speaker B:Or, you know, we go into some weird psychedelic ending that just ends with Dave, like, growing old and dying in his bed.
Speaker B:Like, did he find anything on Jupiter?
Speaker B:Obviously he did, but what.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Besides a nice little furnished apartment.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:And I think that's my other gripe with the movie.
Speaker B:And then I. I could probably ch.
Speaker A:Check off.
Speaker B: hing that pisses me off about: Speaker A:The.
Speaker B:Is the ending of this movie.
Speaker B:Like, I, Like, I understand.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Dave makes it through the wormhole.
Speaker B:He's watching himself.
Speaker B:Like, so does.
Speaker B:Does time become cyclical?
Speaker B:Does it become linear?
Speaker B:And he's watching everything.
Speaker B:Is he tripping balls?
Speaker B:Because he's going through a black hole and we don't know what happens if you're going through a.
Speaker B:A wormhole, slash, black hole.
Speaker A:Like what.
Speaker B:I'm confused.
Speaker B:And I don't.
Speaker B:I think part of that too is like, the movie does nothing to set that up.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because all.
Speaker A:All you really need to set this up is some sort of dialogue about the wormhole.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Even how it could have been like.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've noticed that there's a wormhole upcoming that may cause.
Speaker B:But anything.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Make that the reason why the sensor is going to fail.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker A:Just make that the reason why Hal says the sensor is going to fail.
Speaker A:Doesn't have to be true or not.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Yeah, so that's where.
Speaker A:Going back and watching the ending, the real ending, I was like.
Speaker A:Like just kept it as it was.
Speaker A:But it is interesting.
Speaker A:And then of course, you know, it comes into.
Speaker A:We don't really know, but you see the heavy interstellar influence.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That gets pulled into it from that aspect of, you know.
Speaker A:Now.
Speaker A:Now can you op.
Speaker A:Can you occupy two different spaces at the same time essentially, or the same space multiple times.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:At different time periods.
Speaker A:And so now that's thrown out there Right.
Speaker A:As the theory or whatever.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It's a very kind of cool, interesting thing to talk about or to think about.
Speaker A:But again, it comes at the end of something where you're already kind of going, huh.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so now it just feels empty and unfinished.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because you don't know.
Speaker A:And it's no longer really kind of that talking point or that theory that could get, you know, some real kind of back and forth going because it's just like at the wrong time almost, if that makes sense.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's no.
Speaker B:They didn't earn it.
Speaker B:I say that a lot about movies, but they never we, we're like, what?
Speaker B:Like, it's just random that you're like, oh, okay.
Speaker B:And then you just throw in this theoretical time travel problem that you're like, wait, why are we even having this problem?
Speaker B:Other than some of the scientists, especially back then, the guesses of what a black hole or a wormhole would entail.
Speaker B:Right, but it's just this addition in there with no.
Speaker A:There.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:Is it though?
Speaker B:I guess we can say whether it was or not when we rate it.
Speaker B:Which.
Speaker B:Should we do that?
Speaker A:Let's do it.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:My movie.
Speaker B:I'm gonna rate it.
Speaker B:Listen, I'm gonna give this movie a two and a half.
Speaker B:It's middle of the road to me.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I have too much respect for the influence that it has long term in Hollywood to all over it.
Speaker B:From like to say it's not deserving of at least an average score.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because it does.
Speaker B:To your point, like the, the reach of this film and what it did and how it changed Hollywood can still be seen today.
Speaker A:However,.
Speaker B:The innovation that came along with it and the, the bravery to go future forward in that way and really lean into that is the only thing that I give it credit for.
Speaker B:Like, as far as like a film itself, it's block, it's fucking cubic, it's chunky, it's fucking confusing.
Speaker B:It's a bunch of odd artistic choices that don't resonate with me personally and I don't feel resonate in general again from an objective, A subjectively objective perspective.
Speaker B: understand, especially in the: Speaker B:I'm gonna do this thing.
Speaker B: its influences even today in: Speaker B:And so to be able to carry the level of, you know, 60 year end game to.
Speaker B: g influenced, I mean, without: Speaker B:Do we even have Interstellar?
Speaker A:We don't have Wally, I can tell you that much.
Speaker B:Yeah, no Wally.
Speaker A:Lift how directly from this?
Speaker B:100%.
Speaker B:So it's, it's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean there's so many things that you don't that you have to give credit to this film for inspiring and making possible.
Speaker B: However, in: Speaker B:It just.
Speaker B:It just feels weird.
Speaker B:There's very cool parts to it visually.
Speaker B:The storyline itself could be interesting.
Speaker B:It could have been a wildly awesome movie in my opinion, simply because of what it, it tries to tackle and, and the fact that the futuristic piece, and especially now with the AI and everything like that shit's thing, but it just was, it was done in a very cubic fashion and so it detracted for me.
Speaker B:But two and a half, I don't, I try not to watch it.
Speaker B: e says to me, I've never seen: Speaker B:So there it is for me.
Speaker A:Let's see.
Speaker A:The first time I watched it, I'd give it a 3 because HBO picked was phenomenal.
Speaker A:Going back and watching the real ending was a little bit of a letdown.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'll be, I'll be two and a half as well.
Speaker A: ollywood movies that still in: Speaker A:And we've also done movies that age very poorly recently, in fact.
Speaker A:And what the, the dichotomy of this is that parts of this aged perfectly and other parts of this aged awfully.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A: for, you know, viewing it in: Speaker A:Modern age.
Speaker A:This movie is odd because again, it's a Kubrick movie.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So there's several movies bundled into one viewing time.
Speaker A:And the AI part ages perfectly in my mind.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:60 Years later, this is perfect.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then you have the monkey bits that I'm like, the actual.
Speaker A:Am I watching?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so that doesn't age well at all, but it's the same movie.
Speaker A:And so I, I, again, I don't think I'll ever watch this front to back ever again.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I will revisit this AI ending the flight from Jupiter and everything.
Speaker A:I can revisit that multiple times over.
Speaker A:And so it's a very interesting thing, you know, for being the middle of the road, because that's, that, that's almost exactly what I think of it as is.
Speaker A:You could cut it right down the middle, right down the middle of this movie.
Speaker A:Half of it is perfect.
Speaker A:The other half is absolutely.
Speaker A:And so for me, this is the most middle of a road movie that'll ever exist.
Speaker A:Yeah, because of the strange dichotomy that is Stanley Kubrick when he films and records movies.
Speaker A:And this one is just the most Kubrick film that has ever kubricked.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker A:And so two and a half.
Speaker A:I won't watch the whole thing again, but I will revisit the HAL portions in the Jupiter trip time again because that is cool and that is interesting.
Speaker A:Yeah, two and a half for me.
Speaker B:How's dope?
Speaker B:Scary, but dope.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:All right, well, Kubrick month is done.
Speaker B:I think we've pretty much watched his entire filmography, so hopefully it's close.
Speaker A:There might be a couple, but done.
Speaker B:With Kubrick for a while.
Speaker B:But anyway, Alec, tell everybody where they can find us when we're not avoiding rogue AIs and wormholes to Jupiter or whatever.
Speaker A:Fantastic planet.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, best place to see us is on YouTube where you see our sad faces, glad faces, mad faces, had bad faces on all the different kinds of faces as we suffer through this month.
Speaker A:This year has been a lot of suffering for one or both of us suffer through film picks, but aside from that, the best place to get involved in the content is on Patreon at what's our Virgin Reviews for absolutely free.
Speaker A:You can get involved in the voting of topics that happen in movies and movies that we pick to go within those topics.
Speaker A:So you get a direct hand in the control of the content for the podcast, which kind of cool thing.
Speaker A:And that is absolutely free on Patreon at what's our Verge Reviews Behind a Little Bitty Wall Paywall on patreon is almost 700 or more than 700,000 at this point, probably additional content, videos, everything from bloopers and outtakes all the way up to full length episodes of movies that nobody should ever watch.
Speaker A:But we went ahead and did for you.
Speaker A:So that is all on Patreon.
Speaker A:Behind a little bit of a paywall if you're interested.
Speaker A:But voting is absolutely free to get involved with the content creation of the podcast.
Speaker A:Special thanks to our current patrons, Rich and CB for continuously selecting wonderful topics or selecting wonderful topics for us to torture each other with.
Speaker A:With that, don't forget, if you're in the market for some energy powder, W GG is your one stop shop for all of your needs, use the code r verdict all one word at checkout for 10 off your order.
Speaker A:And with that I'll kick it back to the Titan of Terror, the Maharaja of mash.
Speaker A:Oh jj.
Speaker B:Yes sir.
Speaker B:Thank you, Alec.
Speaker B:And there it is.
Speaker B:That is September in a nutshell.
Speaker B:Come come see us when October starts next week, and it's gonna be fun.
Speaker B:We'll have a good time.
Speaker B:But as always, we appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker B:We'll catch you on the next one.
Speaker B:Cinematic.
