Patriot Games (1992)
This episode delves into the cinematic exploration of "Patriot Games," a film that encapsulates the tumultuous intersection of personal and political conflict through the lens of CIA analyst Jack Ryan. We commence with an examination of the film's narrative framework, which, while engaging, reveals significant pacing issues that detract from the overall viewing experience. The discourse further extends to a critical evaluation of the character's portrayal, particularly highlighting Harrison Ford's performance, which, despite its commendable aspects, seems constrained by the film's adherence to the source material. Throughout the episode, we engage in a reflective analysis of how our perceptions of films evolve over time, particularly in the context of cinematic critique. Ultimately, we arrive at a consensus that, although "Patriot Games" presents a compelling narrative, it is marred by certain limitations that hinder its standing in the pantheon of action-thrillers.
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Transcript
We're making this awesome movie.
Speaker A:We're running out of money in time.
Speaker A:Let's hurry up and make this go.
Speaker A:And then like.
Speaker A:Because once they get to the house party, like, it's like someone stomped on.
Speaker B:The gas and you're like, Bonnie pythoned it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Welcome to the what's up Every podcast where we fashion ourselves cinematic judge and Jerry.
Speaker A:My name is J.J. crowder.
Speaker A:I'm here with my co host Matzaheiner.
Speaker C:Better Red and Dead and Alec Burgess.
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Speaker A:We appreciate you tuning in.
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Speaker A:Tell a friend about us.
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Speaker A:Wait.
Speaker A:I'd say tell a CIA agent about us, but we have Alec on the podcast, so don't do that.
Speaker A:Former CIA agent, maybe.
Speaker A:Yeah, there are.
Speaker B:They're pretty cool.
Speaker A:Please don't tell any Irish.
Speaker A:I. I was gonna say what group, but then I thought we're already probably in hot water with YouTube as it.
Speaker B:Is added to the group.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, if you have an Irish friend, tell them about us because I want them to come hang out and talk to me.
Speaker A:Because I love that.
Speaker A:That accent, that it's.
Speaker A:It's a lot of fun.
Speaker A:But yeah.
Speaker A:We're here in week three of patriotic films in the month of July.
Speaker A:Moving on to one of the, at the time, the highest grossing actor of all time.
Speaker A:When this was coming out, I believe with the Patriot Games.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:It was written by Tom Clancy.
Speaker A:Ish.
Speaker A:And it was adapted by W. Peter Iliff and directed by Philip Noyce.
Speaker A:It stars Harrison Ford, Sean Bean and Archer, Patrick Bergen, Thor Birch, James Fox, Samuel L. Jackson, Polly Walker and Richard Harris.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Oh, and James Earl Jones, don't forget about him.
Speaker A:It is about CIA analyst Jack Ryan, who interferes with an IRA assassination.
Speaker A:A renegade faction targets him and his family for revenge.
Speaker A:I mean, it's an accurate synopsis, but it's a little choppy there.
Speaker A:There's a little more to that, but yeah.
Speaker B:Doesn't do it justice.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Anyway, this is my movie.
Speaker A:This I always show my age.
Speaker A:So the way when we pick movies just a bit because this.
Speaker A:Yeah, I grew up watching Harrison Ford as Jack Ryan.
Speaker A:Like, and don't get me wrong, I like the newest iteration with John Krasinski.
Speaker A:I thought he did a great job as Jack Ryan, but most of the Jack rides except for Harrison Ford.
Speaker A:Not a huge fan, but I loved.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Patriot Games and Clear and Present Danger and all that stuff.
Speaker A:So really enjoy this movie and Looking forward to talking about it.
Speaker A:I am.
Speaker A:I have not watched.
Speaker A:I will preface this by saying this is the first time I've watched Patriot Games in.
Speaker A:It's got to be like 15 years.
Speaker A:So it's been a very long time since I've watched it.
Speaker D:Wow.
Speaker A:Surprises me why it just hasn't been on the radar.
Speaker A:Like, I. I don't know code for.
Speaker D:Not a good movie.
Speaker B:No, that's what I heard.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, it's not.
Speaker A:But I will say that I look at this film different than I thought I did now.
Speaker A:Like having watched it this time, like, I'll just be straight up.
Speaker A:It didn't hold up for me as well as I thought that it would.
Speaker A:So like I had a few.
Speaker A:Like what the moments that I was like.
Speaker A:I don't remember it being that way.
Speaker A:And I don't know if I should chalk that up to the podcast like we've talked about before, where I watch movies differently now than I used to or if it's just the thing where this movie in 92 was felt much better.
Speaker D:Do you guys watch movies differently?
Speaker C:I think just because we watch.
Speaker C:It's not to say I watch so many more movies.
Speaker C:Like, I probably still watch this the same whatever I watch, but I have to intentionally watch some things.
Speaker C:And there are times, you know, where you're already mad about something you're gonna watch.
Speaker C:AKA usually Alex picks sometimes once a boom and JJ's picks or so you get like a predisposition or something.
Speaker C:But a lot of times it's just, I don't know, you just like, man, I gotta watch this thing and cram it in.
Speaker C:But a lot of times you want to be like, keep an open mind.
Speaker C:I don't know if I feel like I watch things differently, but sometimes I have to try and remove the judgment that I've already given to Alec Movie for sure.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker C:That's a real battle I have.
Speaker B:No, you're poor thing.
Speaker A:I do watch movies very differently because of the podcast.
Speaker A:Like, especially ones that we watch for the podcast.
Speaker A:Like if I go watch a movie just to watch a movie, then I don't.
Speaker A:But if I'm watching it for the podcast, I'm more, I don't want to say nitpicky, but I critique more.
Speaker A:Like I look for things that I'm like, that's a little wonky or that's a little weird.
Speaker A:So I do.
Speaker A:I have a different lens on when I'm watching.
Speaker D:I think I'm just quicker to pick.
Speaker C:Up on if I'm like, enjoying the vibe or like, I'm not pretty, maybe that's probably what's happening over the past five years is I'm much quicker to make the call than I.
Speaker C:Than I would be before.
Speaker C:And I'm like, oh, man.
Speaker C:Like, this is either amazing or like, damn it, I have another hour or not even an hour and a half sometimes.
Speaker C:I'm saying, like, I have another 2 hours and 20 minutes of this movie to go or whatever.
Speaker B:And you're like, man of the people right there.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker C:Trying to save people.
Speaker C:That's why they listen to this and watch it.
Speaker C:This is not one of those movies, but I think that's probably what happens to me more sometimes.
Speaker C:It's like watcher or like reviewer watcher.
Speaker D:Fatigue that creeps in.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Anyways, so if you guys.
Speaker A:Had you guys seen this movie before?
Speaker B:Not all the way through, in one sitting.
Speaker B:I've seen all of it, just not at one time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I thought I had seen this movie all the way through.
Speaker C:I guess I, I, maybe I have, but it been so disjointed or so long because I definitely remembered a lot of this movie.
Speaker C:But the beginning, I remembered less than the end.
Speaker C:Definitely remember more the end in the house.
Speaker C:So I'm not exactly sure, but I.
Speaker D:Remember some of it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I just didn't know because, like, some people had, some people hadn't.
Speaker A:It's one of those things.
Speaker C:There's another one that he's in that.
Speaker C:I don't know if it's a Jack Ryan.
Speaker C:And I. I should have looked the.
Speaker D:Name up of it.
Speaker C:But it's.
Speaker C:There's.
Speaker C:He did like a bunch of these movies that were somewhat similar in that one.
Speaker C:And I need to look up what it was, but that's what I thought we were gonna watch.
Speaker C:I was like, oh, I've seen that like three or four times.
Speaker C:And I'm gonna have to figure out what that was.
Speaker B:Was it clear and present danger?
Speaker C:Oh, that.
Speaker A:I mean, that was.
Speaker A:That is a Jack Ryan.
Speaker A:Jack Ryan.
Speaker A:It's a follow up to this one.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's a good question.
Speaker C:I don't think he was, because I know it's a fault.
Speaker C:I don't think it was that one.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because I think he only did the two as Jack Ryan.
Speaker A:But then he had.
Speaker A:He had, like, Presumed Innocent that was around it.
Speaker A:And then he had the Fugitive.
Speaker C:Oh, it's the Fugitive.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the few.
Speaker A:It was the one Armed man, like, that was.
Speaker A:I remember.
Speaker D:Yeah, that's the one that that's what in that movie's great.
Speaker D:I have to watch that again.
Speaker D:I like that movie.
Speaker D:But that's the one that.
Speaker D:And the other.
Speaker D:The other one you said right before that I'd.
Speaker D:I'd seen those two a lot more.
Speaker D:So it.
Speaker D:Yeah, they're all like kind of like similar ish vibes.
Speaker D:And he's also.
Speaker D:He's also which?
Speaker D:The Air Force One.
Speaker D:I knew this wasn't that.
Speaker D:But even then I'm like, oh, just kind of like, yeah, together.
Speaker A:The early to mid-90s for Harrison Ford was very.
Speaker A:There was a lot.
Speaker A:But again, at the time, like, he was raking in the money from Hollywood because.
Speaker D:Oh, he must have been, because he.
Speaker A:Was, I'm pretty sure for like a decade or more, he was the highest grossing actor, period, for.
Speaker A:Because he just was killing it with all the movies.
Speaker A:But yeah, this one, so clear.
Speaker A:I actually like Clear and Present Danger better than this movie.
Speaker A:But this one felt.
Speaker A:This one fit the theme a little better than Clear and Present Danger.
Speaker A:So the.
Speaker A:The theme's a little different in that movie.
Speaker A:So that's why I went with this one because of the month.
Speaker A:But I'll have to put Clear and Present Danger on there sometime.
Speaker A:Well, maybe we'll do like a whole Harrison Ford month.
Speaker A:Or a month of five.
Speaker D:Yeah, we talked about going, yeah, doing actor months, which he's clearly an easy one to pick.
Speaker A:Yeah, we should.
Speaker A:Because he's got some good ones that most people don't think of.
Speaker A:But anyway, yeah, this movie.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:I was watching it going, oh, yeah.
Speaker A:At first I was getting into it, I was like, yeah, that opening scene.
Speaker A:And then I was like, this movie's got some pacing issues.
Speaker A:Like, and I think I never really paid attention to it because the one thing that is static throughout all Harrison Ford's movies, especially at this time frame, is that Harrison Ford knocks it out of the park.
Speaker A:Like, the guy is just a great actor.
Speaker A:And if I get more impressed with him when I watch, like, interviews and you can see how uncomfortable he is with fame.
Speaker A:But he's so good at what he does when he's on camera.
Speaker A:Even today.
Speaker A:Like, if you want, like, as an old ass man, like, almost 90 years old.
Speaker A:I don't think he's that old, but he's 80 at least.
Speaker A:Like, he plays in a Marvel movie.
Speaker A:He's best part of a Captain America movie.
Speaker A:He's the best part of some goofy comedy show on Apple tv.
Speaker A:He's like.
Speaker A:He just steals the camera in the scene and everything.
Speaker A:And so he carries me through this movie.
Speaker A:But it had some serious pacing issues that I didn't remember when I was younger and watching this.
Speaker A:Like I was like, man, this movie's dragging on.
Speaker A:And I don't get me wrong, there's some great scenes and some dialogue and there's a lot of intrigue in the sp, but there's some pieces where I'm like, wow, do we have to have another conversation about the base that they're hiding out, getting trained in Africa?
Speaker A:Like Jesus, just go blow it up already.
Speaker A:Like fuck.
Speaker B:So I agree with you.
Speaker B:But I think the problem stems from the source material is an analyst.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And you cast Harrison Ford and this, this is the problem with Jack Ryan just in general, because it's.
Speaker B:I've read some of the Jack Ryan books and they're phenomenal.
Speaker B:They're great books, great story, phenomenal kind of way to write a character.
Speaker B:But every single time they cast someone it's like action star, action star, action star, action star.
Speaker B:Even John Krasinski.
Speaker B:And so you have Harrison Ford coming in.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Especially at this time.
Speaker B:He's coming off of, you know, it's a little ways away.
Speaker B:But the fame never left him.
Speaker B:Han Solo, Indiana Jones.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:The source material for Jack Ryan is much more cerebral, it's much more intellectual.
Speaker B:He's you know, a thinker.
Speaker B:And so yeah, I think it's a miscasting and then a misunderstanding what your story is because it, the expectation there is ooh, Harrison Ford non stop explosions.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you know, all this, you know, jumping and swinging and you know, run through city just chases high speed.
Speaker B:And that's not really what the source material is.
Speaker B:And so then it's like you toss between this battle because I, Tom Clancy was involved.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Or involved as they let him be.
Speaker B:And so you have this battle going back and forth with the materials.
Speaker B:And I think this kind of just character Jack Ryan needs more love in general.
Speaker B:But I would like them to take a different approach and maybe do like a, like an Oscar Isaac kind of feel with it or you know, figure out some way and get someone who's really into it to be like commit to actually telling the full story.
Speaker B:Because they, they switched care.
Speaker B:They switched who's playing Jack Ryan so much that like for the longest time I had no idea this was a sequel to all the Hunt for Red October.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Where the did that come from?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so it's like, it's like that there's so much that you could do with this if you have the right pieces in place.
Speaker B:But I think the pacing for me anyway, it stemmed from the fact that it's like, that's not.
Speaker B:You're trying to put a square peg into a round hole and call it good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And just don't fit.
Speaker D:It's a good call out to add to that.
Speaker D:I. I mean, let's just call it what it is.
Speaker D:I'm.
Speaker D:I'm sure I'm the biggest Harrison.
Speaker D:Maybe I'm not the biggest Harrison Ford fan, but I feel like I am on this podcast.
Speaker D:I mean, my favorite.
Speaker A:You are.
Speaker D:It's not.
Speaker D:I can't call it trilogy anymore, but the OG Indiana Jones movies doesn't get any better than that for me.
Speaker D:Like they're just perfect.
Speaker D:And they're perfect because of Harrison Ford.
Speaker C:And so in this movie until like really the end, like, like halfway through the house scene and then when they get on the boat, I was like, okay.
Speaker C:Like, yeah, this is like, this is what you expected when you signed him up.
Speaker C:But before that, he's like a dumbed down boring version.
Speaker C:I. I knew it wasn't bad acting.
Speaker C:He's a great actor.
Speaker C:But I was like, he just feels deadpan, monotone, kind of one note.
Speaker C:Because that's more of what an analyst is.
Speaker C:So it's not that I was like bored.
Speaker C:Not the right word, but I just knew there was more there.
Speaker C:And it's like they kind of caged him.
Speaker C:And so like obviously Sean Penn and the.
Speaker C:The other side, there was some compelling people in a story within a story for the villains and what was happening there.
Speaker C:But it got lost to me because anytime let's switch back to Jack Ryan, Harrison Ford.
Speaker C:I was just like, oh, okay.
Speaker C:Like, like Al was saying, like another one of these like semi research scenes.
Speaker C:Let's look through a microscope at another picture.
Speaker C:Like, hey, do you really have a confidence?
Speaker C:Like, dude, this is Harris freaking Ford.
Speaker C:He's just gonna go punch someone and it's gonna be the loudest punch you've ever heard on this globe.
Speaker C:And that's kind of like this movie just.
Speaker C:It took itself for me almost too seriously to the point where it caused me to have more disinterest than I really wanted.
Speaker C:It was still an interesting story, but I wanted.
Speaker C:It just left me wanting a little bit more from someone I knew that had it, but couldn't do that because of what Alex said, because that's not who this guy is.
Speaker C:And so these other movies that we rat off towards the beginning that I was like, oh, this, like this movie fits right into those other ones, those other movies.
Speaker C:Like when freaking Air Force One, you're like, this is the President.
Speaker C:Like, he's out here banging og like, bad guy.
Speaker C:Like, and, or, or the, the, the Fugitive.
Speaker C:He's a doctor, but he's out here like rolling around with like assassin type people and pharmaceutical company doing all that.
Speaker C:Far more entertaining.
Speaker C:And I don't know, like, that's just where I struggled with this movie.
Speaker C:And that's where.
Speaker C:Because the other, like the, the villains were interesting, the story was interesting.
Speaker C:It just.
Speaker C:Ah, man, it just, it kind of crawled for me.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, yeah.
Speaker A:And I, It's a good call out.
Speaker A:Like, I hadn't really thought.
Speaker A:Like, I know Jack Ryan's an analyst.
Speaker A:Like, I've read the books.
Speaker A:The books, to your point, Alec, are absolutely phenomenal.
Speaker A:If you haven't read them, you should.
Speaker C:Read them clearly, because there's like, how many now?
Speaker A:Like, well, he's, he's got quite a few.
Speaker A:I mean, he eventually becomes the President.
Speaker A:Spoiler alert.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, director is CIA, President, United States.
Speaker A:Like the guys.
Speaker A:Like, he's at the center of most of Tom Clancy's stories by the time he's done.
Speaker A:But anyway, like, but the fact that he is an analyst and he's a brain, he's not.
Speaker A:Like, he gets stuck in these positions and he was a Marine.
Speaker A:Like, he does have the military experience and the training and so he can do those things, but he doesn't prefer it.
Speaker A:And that's why I think I liked John Krasinski's version and at least in the first season, because it was a lot of the analystic pieces of it, and he's put into this place he doesn't want to be.
Speaker A:It gets a little wonky after that, but.
Speaker A:But in this case, I'm with you.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm glad it wasn't Alec Baldwin because, God, that was terrible.
Speaker A:But at the same time, and especially the way this movie starts off, it's.
Speaker A:It's an action scene.
Speaker A:Like, you see his training and so you're like, oh, this is what I'm in for, right?
Speaker A:And that in the first 20 minutes, I'm like, I remember.
Speaker A:I love this movie.
Speaker A:And then I went, oh, fuck, he's an analyst.
Speaker A:He's back at the CIA, like, trying to figure this shit out.
Speaker A:Like, God damn it now.
Speaker A:Then it hit me different.
Speaker A:Like I was like, okay, it's a little slow.
Speaker A:And then it takes a minute.
Speaker A:And then I, I think Sean Bean, as much as I love Sean Bean, like, he doesn't play this character as well as I'd like for, to like he's, he's unhinged obviously.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like you need the loss of his brother makes him even crazier than he already was.
Speaker A:But like just the relentless, unwavering, like rigid everything up to get to Jack Ryan piece like got annoying to me this watch around.
Speaker A:I was like, Jesus.
Speaker A:I like, I want to see more of the other guy because he's like calculated and thinking things through and he has a plan and Sean Bean's character just keeps up trying to get revenge.
Speaker A:And so I was like, the, the villains weren't as interesting to me as I wanted them to be just because I got annoyed by how unreasonable he was.
Speaker D:I liked it because it felt more realistic of what, like what it could be in real life because someone would have that passion and it could screw it up.
Speaker D:And those people usually are unhinged.
Speaker D:And I like the dichotomy of cold blooded mastermind versus the hot head that gets the job done but radically spins off.
Speaker D:That worked for me, but I think it also worked because pretty much all the scenes they were in were the most interesting scenes.
Speaker D:So that probably was a lot of it.
Speaker A:It's fair.
Speaker B:I don't like the like unhinged, but still within the box.
Speaker B:That common with this type of movie from the early 90s is like it just popped in my head when you guys are talking about it.
Speaker B:Even though he's young.
Speaker B:I would have loved to see a little bit of Sean Bean act more like I think it was Mel Gibson's character in Expendables 3.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, one of those where it's just guns out confidence blazing up, I'm blowing everything up kind of thing where you have this unhinged and almost like nobody knows what he's gonna do do next.
Speaker B:Yeah, not, not his, not the ira, not anybody else, not the CIA.
Speaker B:There's no clue, there's no way to predict this because it feels like I, I agree with Matt's on some points, but it feels like the unhinged, it's just in the box.
Speaker B:So you're still bound by these, you know, moral or ethical code or this parameters.
Speaker A:Yeah, until the very end.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:No, but I, I, I, I tend to, to agree with you overall.
Speaker D:I just, yeah.
Speaker D:The more we talk about it more, I'm thinking back to when I watched it.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Just I wanted, just wanted a little bit more.
Speaker D:And you knew, you knew they had the actor that could do it.
Speaker D:It just wasn't the character to give it to you.
Speaker A:I think hearing you talk about it in that Way Alec, I think I would have enjoyed maybe a two prong villain instead of like, like you said, this really smart genius with the, you know, the lady that's smart.
Speaker A:And they're doing this like calculated, working the angles.
Speaker A:And then when he doesn't let him, when the revenge plot fails the first time, he loses it and goes off on his own, right?
Speaker A:And because the other guy won't let him, he tries to tell him he can't do it.
Speaker A:Then all of a sudden you've got two angles you got to worry about.
Speaker A:And like, so it's like, which one's going to get where first?
Speaker A:And then it would make more sense to me.
Speaker A:Like the two villains can battle each other to some level because they're getting in each other's way.
Speaker A:And then like that would have made a little more sense.
Speaker A:And I, because I, I didn't really pick up on the whole unhinged but controlled.
Speaker A:Like, I don't love that.
Speaker A:And that really hit it on the head.
Speaker A:What bothered me, it's like, ah, you, but you, you let him control you up until the very end.
Speaker A:Like if you're that off your rocker, like, you're not letting him, like, yeah, go get your training from him, but then sneak out in the middle of the night, right?
Speaker A:And that's how you survive the attack.
Speaker A:Like, anyway, like, I think that.
Speaker A:But yeah, that could have been an interesting rewrite.
Speaker A:But I think also to your point, I think there was some being felt put in a box because of the source material, because it does follow that source material decently, well, at least from the villain perspective and how they get there.
Speaker A:The difference in the book, to me, if I remember right, it's been a minute since I've read it, is that there is some understanding of the relationship between the mastermind guy of the ira, the offshoot of the ira, and Sean Bean's character that there's a reason why he stays up until the very end.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Like, I don't remember what the connection was, but the books give you more details.
Speaker A:So I, I didn't have that payoff as to the loyalty to this guy in the movie.
Speaker A:Not as much anyway.
Speaker A:So I, yeah, would have been an interesting take to change up the material a little bit, but great acting across the board.
Speaker A:Like, there's some massive actors in this.
Speaker A:Like, I love James Earl Jones's Greer.
Speaker A:Like I, it's great.
Speaker A:I love like, yeah, so many.
Speaker A:I love that line where he walks in and he's just so smug about the fact that he's coming Back like, it's like, oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker A:And then just walks out.
Speaker A:Like, it's great.
Speaker A:It's good stuff.
Speaker D:I think the other thing, because I hadn't read the book and I'm trying to.
Speaker D:I think I'd seen enough of this that I knew it was the.
Speaker D:It.
Speaker D:What?
Speaker D:Who was the guy that turned on him in the.
Speaker D:It was the.
Speaker D:Like, it wasn't the butler.
Speaker D:I can't remember the guy's position.
Speaker D:It was like the driver or like the.
Speaker A:He's like the house manager, right?
Speaker A:Like the cheapest laugher.
Speaker D:Yeah, something like that.
Speaker D:And it didn't.
Speaker D:Because you knew it was someone close.
Speaker D:Like, you could deduct that.
Speaker C:And I don't know if they could.
Speaker D:Have made the twist a little bit.
Speaker C:Better, more shocking or something.
Speaker C:Because when they're in the house and you see he's going down, then he.
Speaker D:Has a pull at his gun and.
Speaker C:You'Re like, okay, yeah, it's probably feels about right.
Speaker C:Like, who else could it have been?
Speaker C:I feel like that could have landed better.
Speaker C:Like other movies here.
Speaker C:You want to be like, whoa, like, okay, like, who.
Speaker C:Who the hell was that?
Speaker D:Or.
Speaker C:Or at least just have a cooler, like, coming out scene or something.
Speaker C:It just kind of felt abruptly like, oh, it's happening right now.
Speaker C:Like, maybe that was a little bit more important because this is why they're kind of in this position.
Speaker C:But I don't know.
Speaker D:I remember.
Speaker C:That's kind of one of the thoughts I had too.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think the book does play that out much better, if I remember right.
Speaker A:But again, they have more time.
Speaker A:I will say that the other thing that I noticed in this movie, and this probably goes a little bit to what you're talking about, Matson, is that it feels like Alex favorite explanation of we're making this awesome ass movie.
Speaker A:We're running out of money in time.
Speaker A:Let's hurry up and make this go.
Speaker A:And then, like.
Speaker A:Because once they get to the house party, like, it's like someone stomped on the gas and you're like, Bonnie pythoned it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, and then like, whoa, we're on boats and swinging.
Speaker A:Goddamn 20 pound.
Speaker A:Yeah, like anchors.
Speaker A:Like they're five pounds.
Speaker C:Is the security team that's around the house that incompetent where they didn't check the coastline and there's just the one of those boats get there, like.
Speaker C:And they didn't hear him.
Speaker C:They didn't.
Speaker C:Like, that just felt stupid.
Speaker C:Like, why you guys just must suck balls and, like, deserve to die.
Speaker A:Hey, man, they had some good training in Africa.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Okay, they were training on sand.
Speaker D:Not.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I will say that that one thing that has always bothered me about this movie from the time I was a kid until today or yesterday when I watched it again with a Wade.
Speaker A:Sean Bean swings that anchor in that boat.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, look, I know it's.
Speaker A:That's a lighter weight anchor, but anybody's been on a boat, boat anchors are not that light.
Speaker A:And he's swinging that thing like a baseball bat.
Speaker A:Yeah, it doesn't work that way, dude.
Speaker A:You'd swing that and your whole body go flying if you miss.
Speaker A:Because that thing, they weigh at least 15, 20 pounds.
Speaker A:Even the light versions, like, get the out of here.
Speaker A:I. I laughed at that.
Speaker A:But Sean Bean does keep up his legacy of just wild ass deaths in this movie.
Speaker A:Good old Sean Bean always dying.
Speaker A:Anchor to the back.
Speaker D:What a way to go.
Speaker A:Yeah, he's got some crazy ones, but yeah, the end of this movie goes like nuclear speed.
Speaker A:Like, we're done.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:And I do hate.
Speaker A:Maybe this is stupid.
Speaker A:How do you guys feel about the ending?
Speaker B:Not my favorite part of the movie.
Speaker A:I'll say that like, and I'm talking like the end end.
Speaker A:Like when the cuts to black.
Speaker D:Remind.
Speaker C:I watched this.
Speaker D:Like, I watched this before I went to Hawaii.
Speaker D:So it's been like 11 days.
Speaker D:So I'm.
Speaker D:I'm fuzzy.
Speaker A:It's when she's on the phone with the doctor about the baby and oh, she's like, you want to know?
Speaker A:And then she's like, said something that it just cuts the black.
Speaker A:I'm like, the like, why?
Speaker D:Because they knew they were making a sequel.
Speaker A:Maybe, I mean, maybe it's the same group that made it, but I.
Speaker A:It just doesn't.
Speaker A:But there's no payoff to it.
Speaker A:It's not like clear and present.
Speaker A:Danger cuts to her going, it's a boy.
Speaker D:Like, you know, not about that.
Speaker D:It's like, yeah, we didn't watch it to get a gender reveal.
Speaker A:It's just a weird way to end this very intense fucking movie.
Speaker A:I'm like, what is going on right now?
Speaker D:Anyway, they wanted to show that the family continued on after a trap, like a tragedy.
Speaker D:But no, now, now thinking back that I remember just being like, okay, well, maybe it was non binary.
Speaker A:Yeah, maybe it was twins.
Speaker A:It's funny.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It just bothered me.
Speaker A:I was like, what the.
Speaker A:I don't think I ever watched it all, like, as a young man.
Speaker A:I was like, okay, they're done.
Speaker D:I'm gonna move.
Speaker D:They probably could have just finished that same night like them hugging as a family and just.
Speaker D:Yeah, wrapped it up because whatever that, that end scene.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:A couple minutes of like we could have just ended this slowly paced movie.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker A:All right, should we rate it?
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:My movie.
Speaker A:I go first.
Speaker A:I'm gonna give it a three and a half look.
Speaker A:I thought this was a much higher rated movie.
Speaker A:When I picked it, I was like, I.
Speaker A:My memory was obviously not.
Speaker A:It was foggy.
Speaker A:But rewatching this, like, it doesn't hold up as well as I thought.
Speaker A:What does hold up is Harrison Ford, Sean Bean, the characters, the acting is very good.
Speaker A:The story is amazing.
Speaker A:That's why these books are famous.
Speaker A:That's why Tom Clancy makes a living on royalties alone from the.
Speaker A:That people bought his books to make stuff.
Speaker A:Because the stories are amazing and this movie is no different.
Speaker A:Harrison Ford just owns the scenes.
Speaker A:He's great.
Speaker A:The acting's great.
Speaker A:It is a good story.
Speaker A:It's tense in moments.
Speaker A:You're like, oh, what's gonna happen?
Speaker A:But it also has that 90s feel of, well, we know that he's gonna come out on top and everything's gonna be okay.
Speaker A:And you know that.
Speaker A:But it's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:At this, at the same time, like the pacing was very weird to me this time.
Speaker A:Like it just felt like they took a lot longer in areas that I was like.
Speaker A:I don't remember there being this much analyzation and dialogue and like talking.
Speaker A:So that was.
Speaker A:That was kind of a.
Speaker A:A wake up call to me for this movie.
Speaker A:But still very good.
Speaker A:I still watch it.
Speaker A:Probably not anytime, but I'd watch it.
Speaker A:I'll watch it again.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:If nothing else than to watch Harrison Ford do what Harrison Ford does.
Speaker A:And yeah.
Speaker A:So three and a half for me.
Speaker A:I don't know when I'll watch it again, but I would definitely do it.
Speaker A:Matson.
Speaker D:Yeah, it's a tough one.
Speaker D:I'm thinking to get a three and a half as well.
Speaker D:Obviously we talked about the pacing.
Speaker D:Talked about my boy Harrison Ford kind of having some handcuffs.
Speaker D:The subject matter is really interesting.
Speaker D:I still think it's worth a watch.
Speaker D:Maybe just don't watch the last two minutes.
Speaker D:Stop once they're safe as a family.
Speaker D:But when the action first.
Speaker B:120 either.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker D:When the actions go in this movie, it's really fun and entertaining.
Speaker D:That's just some things in the.
Speaker D:In between.
Speaker D:Will I watch this again?
Speaker D:Honestly, I don't know if I will because there's other movies around this that I get to see my Boy do his thing in the way that I want them to.
Speaker D:And I'll probably just rather watch those.
Speaker A:It's fair.
Speaker A:All right, Alec, bring us home.
Speaker B:So not the biggest Harrison forfeit is what I just heard.
Speaker B:I'll be different.
Speaker B:I'm gonna give it three kind of the same reasons.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's not necessarily something I grew up on.
Speaker B:Love the books, the ones that I have read anyway.
Speaker B:But it just feels like Jack Ryan as a whole, whole.
Speaker B:Like, it's great that Tom Clancy, like jj, you're saying, is living off the royalties, but there's so much more you could do with this character and these stories to really make it cool.
Speaker B:That it?
Speaker B:For me, it feels like you gotta have a big kind of deal where it's, hey, we're doing four, five, six movies longterm, big studio to pick it up to really tell the whole story.
Speaker B:Because what we have is just piecemeal, right?
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:There's five or six movies and there's four or five actors that play Jack Ryan.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then you have a TV show with a whole nother actor in there.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:It's like you gotta stick with it almost to really tell the story in a great way for Hollywood.
Speaker B:And this.
Speaker B:This at least is kind of like the typical action star, pump and dump, kind of make a lot of money, set up a sequel, make a whole lot more money, and then, you know, move on to the next thing.
Speaker B:So three for me.
Speaker B:Watch it again.
Speaker B:Probably not.
Speaker B:But I won't say no to it if it.
Speaker B:It's what everybody else wants to watch.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Who?
Speaker A:So we got.
Speaker A:You started with Alec Baldwin and then twice then.
Speaker B:And you had someone.
Speaker A:Ben Affleck.
Speaker B:Ben Affleck.
Speaker B:Next Chris Pine.
Speaker A:Chris Pine.
Speaker B:And then John Krasinski and then John.
Speaker A:Krasinski in the TV show.
Speaker A:And I, like I said the first season of Jack Ryan on.
Speaker A:On Amazon with John Krasinski is some of my favorite television.
Speaker A:Season two was.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Season three, I was like, man.
Speaker A:But season one is outrageously good question.
Speaker D:For the group between James Bond and Jack Ryan.
Speaker D:And we can throw Jason Bourne in there.
Speaker D:Maybe there's one other.
Speaker D:Maybe just those two, because Jack Ryan and James Bond, to me, have been the longest running, like, characters that have had multiple actors play them.
Speaker D:I feel like if you did a.
Speaker C:Poll.
Speaker D:To most people, they're gonna say they prefer James Bond over Jack Ryan.
Speaker D:It seems pretty like James One is far and away more popular, in my opinion, if I was to pull those people.
Speaker D:But I don't know if you guys feel differently.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker B:The man of the people has spoken.
Speaker B:We agree with you.
Speaker A:I was about to make a joke earlier about him being the American James Bond and it didn't work out.
Speaker A:Yeah, James Bond's much more interesting because James Bond is exactly what he should be.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like he's the suave debonair spy whereas Jack Ryan, he's an analyst and in the books it works because they write it from an analyst perspective.
Speaker A:A guy that doesn't want to be out in the field, he doesn't want like he wants to just do smart in an office by himself but gets pulled into these weird situations because he.
Speaker B:Is so smart.
Speaker A:And, and nobody's been able to.
Speaker A:Alex point.
Speaker A:Nobody's been able to figure it out yet.
Speaker A:Not fully.
Speaker A:There's had been moments of like shine but like you had the one with Chris Pine that was like this isn't Jack Ryan.
Speaker A:He was like full on action star, like no analyst whatsoever.
Speaker A:I was like that's not okay.
Speaker A:But then you had like Alec Baldwin where it was like you just all analysed.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was like what the are we doing here?
Speaker A:Like and so it.
Speaker A:Yeah, but I'm with you.
Speaker A:I think yeah.
Speaker A:James Bond is by far the better depending on who plays him.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker D:Well yeah, I mean he, I mean you say about this character but I just think overall and I mean I think if you even compare who played between those characters, I mean there's been some really good James Bonds where I can't really think of any besides John Krasinski who haven't watched.
Speaker D:I mean are you really watching any Jack Ryan's just to watch him?
Speaker D:Probably not.
Speaker A:Yeah, not so much.
Speaker A:Ah, clear in present danger I'd watch.
Speaker A:It's a much more interesting movie but it's also not analysis analyzing.
Speaker A:It's more of a Harrison Ford piece depending especially where he's at because he's moving in.
Speaker A:Anyway, I won't go there.
Speaker A:We're talking about a very different movie but there it is.
Speaker A:Patriot Games.
Speaker A: making you watch this lovely: Speaker A:Alex Everybody where they can find us.
Speaker B:Happy to.
Speaker B:Well you know that's the reason why we love you jj.
Speaker B:Anyway, this was week three of Patriot films or films with a patriotic twist for the month of July.
Speaker B:Special thanks to our patrons rich NCB or Charles.
Speaker B:Can't remember what your name is.
Speaker B:Sorry for getting online and getting the topic going and selecting movies to go with that topic.
Speaker B:Another little psa.
Speaker B:The voting is free.
Speaker B:So join us on Patreon.
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Speaker B:If you guys want to come in and join the what's our verdict family, that's the best place to get involved with the content.
Speaker B:Vote on movies.
Speaker B:Suggest movies.
Speaker B:If you're going to be paying Patreon as well.
Speaker B:Highest tier.
Speaker B:You get a quarterly movie that we will do.
Speaker B:That is whatever you want.
Speaker B:With very liminal restrictions.
Speaker B:JJ has a few movies he refuses to watch with me.
Speaker B:With that, I will kick it back to the King of Crash, the Titan of Terror.
Speaker B:A jj.
Speaker A:Yes, sir.
Speaker A:I don't know, Alec.
Speaker A:There's a couple of horror movies coming out that I might be willing to trade for because there's some brutal ones coming out that I think would be right up the with Alec alley.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, there's some that I'm even like, oh, do I really want to watch that?
Speaker B:Like the answer to that question is always no.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:You know, it's always yes for me.
Speaker A:So yeah, there it is.
Speaker A:I don't know what we're.
Speaker A:We got to get a vote up for August soon.
Speaker A:But with that, as always, we appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker A:We'll catch you on the next one.
Speaker B:Hasta la vista, baby.
Speaker A:Cinematic.
